New construction method?

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Post by Peter Brown on Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:02 am

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A Boughton on Mercedes stand. Note the lip at the top which may account for more length than the bike rack fixings.

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Post by Maasai Warrior on Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:06 am

We were at the show yesterday looking at the Kingham. Yes very impressed with the van, we also like the curved bench seat cushion. AS say the grp changes apply to the coachbuilts only and they are still fitting whale pumps in the freshwater tanks in all new vans, though they will fit Shurflo’s if requested. Peter, interesting overhang, not sure about the new light clusters. The bike rack fittings appear lower which can only be an improvement.

Water ingress warranty is 3 years plus another three years only if AS dealers or AS are used for warranty and service work etc. (only from October this year!)

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Post by Kingham on Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:41 am

Maasai Warrior wrote:We were at the show yesterday looking at the Kingham. Yes very impressed with the van, we also like the curved bench seat cushion. AS say the grp changes apply to the coachbuilts only and they are still fitting whale pumps in the freshwater tanks in all new vans, though they will fit Shurflo’s if requested. Peter, interesting overhang, not sure about the new light clusters. The bike rack fittings appear lower which can only be an improvement.

Water ingress warranty is 3 years plus another three years only if AS dealers or AS are used for warranty and service work etc. (only from October this year!)

Pete

Hi Pete, 

Did you get round to querying the number of microwave shelves that are failing in the Kinghams ?

I'd be interested to hear what their response was.

I'm hoping to get mine in to my dealership next week to get the shelving strengthened and the microwave refitted after I recently removed it to prevent it crashing through the glass sink lid.

Ken.

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Post by Maasai Warrior on Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:53 am

Hi Ken, after I had spoken to the AS chap about other things I suddenly realised I had forgotten to ask that very question, unfortunately a queue had developed at the desk. But what I did do was go back into the Kingham to examine it and to give the microwave and shelf a good tug! Both were very firm and solid, so perhaps the information has got back to the factory! A couple of other interested people were in the van at the time and witnessed my hooligan actions and wondered what I was doing, so I explained and they were very surprised that this was an issue. However this doesn’t help your situation Ken.

So I thought I would give Mark Burdett at AS a ring this morning. As we are thinking of downsizing to a Kingham, and as we had heard stories about the weak microwave shelf, I asked if anything had been done to improve this situation. He said that the issue had been mentioned to the factory on more than one occasion, but he does not know whether any strengthening has been carried out. He went on to say that the shelf unit furniture is flat pack with the usual fixings and there are strengthening rods added, however heavy movements of the van, caused by road conditions, could cause problems. He added that if we were interested in purchasing the Kingham, we should ask that the shelving is strenghtened.

With regards to the new rear lights on coachbuilts, although they look unusual (a little bland - my words!), apparently they are very efficient and bright when they come on.

I also understand from Mark that the grp overhang at the back does not protrude beyond the position of a bike rack and is there, with a newly positioned top brake light, if I have got it right, to help to shade and give better vision through the rear view camera. Previously when the red top brake lights came on, it affected the viewing through the camera. 

Hope all this helps

Pete
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Post by Kingham on Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:45 am

Maasai Warrior wrote:Hi Ken, after I had spoken to the AS chap about other things I suddenly realised I had forgotten to ask that very question, unfortunately a queue had developed at the desk. But what I did do was go back into the Kingham to examine it and to give the microwave and shelf a good tug! Both were very firm and solid, so perhaps the information has got back to the factory! A couple of other interested people were in the van at the time and witnessed my hooligan actions and wondered what I was doing, so I explained and they were very surprised that this was an issue. However this doesn’t help your situation Ken.

So I thought I would give Mark Burdett at AS a ring this morning. As we are thinking of downsizing to a Kingham, and as we had heard stories about the weak microwave shelf, I asked if anything had been done to improve this situation. He said that the issue had been mentioned to the factory on more than one occasion, but he does not know whether any strengthening has been carried out. He went on to say that the shelf unit furniture is flat pack with the usual fixings and there are strengthening rods added, however heavy movements of the van, caused by road conditions, could cause problems. He added that if we were interested in purchasing the Kingham, we should ask that the shelving is strenghtened...........

Hope all this helps

Pete
Thanks Pete,

Being aware of the shelf issue and a few other problems highlighted on the forum, I also gave mine a good check at handover and it was fine at that point. It was close to 3000 miles when I noticed the shelf beginning to sag.

Other than that, I have very little to complain about my Kingham and I love the layout. 

At the moment, the only thing I would spec differently if it ever becomes available, would be the addition of a sliding window next to the bed, to match those in the front. There is a USB charging point under the bedroom mirror, which I plug a small 12v fan in to, which helps, but I would still prefer an opening window.

Ken.

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Post by chrisk on Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:30 pm

Peter Brown wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A Boughton on Mercedes stand.  Note the lip at the top which may account for more length than the bike rack fixings.






The overhang might be a spoiler LOL

Looks good.
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Post by MysteryMachine on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:30 pm

Maybe it's me but I'm confused. Is there a new construction method or isn't there? Is the interior wallboard now ditched in favour of grp? And if so how can it be damp tested assuming ther is wood inside?
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Post by Peter Brown on Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:39 pm

No new construction method just an alternative inner surface to walls and ceiling. Asked several people 're testing, no answer.

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Post by Liam on Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:56 pm

I would suspect that you would have to penetrate the GRP somehow to determine if there was any moisture entering!
Perhaps they now have built in damp meters!!
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Post by MysteryMachine on Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:20 pm

I think you will find that the 4cm or so extra length of the 2018 models is purely the result of the depth of the new rear moulding panel being fitted.
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Post by daisy mae on Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:23 pm

chrisk wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A Boughton on Mercedes stand.  Note the lip at the top which may account for more length than the bike rack fixings.






The overhang might be a spoiler LOL

Looks good
If you don`t mind me daying so, I think it is ugly, each to their own. jmho


Last edited by daisy mae on Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : replied in wrong box.)
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Post by MysteryMachine on Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:49 pm

This is very interesting. Presume this is how they will damp test the new models with inner grp wall panel:

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Post by Paulmold on Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:22 pm

Protimeters are what most testers use, as they don't pierce the surface. As you can see they cost a lot compared with the common 2- pin type. Check eBay for 'non-invasive damp meter' and you'll find ones from China for around £20, whether any good or not , I have no idea. My mobile engineer uses one that cost him £200 as used by building surveyors.
For the purpose of testing through GRP you really need one designed for marine use i.e boat hulls. Such a meter as this...

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Post by Pete Taylor on Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:43 pm

Peter Brown wrote:.........

There s no change in the method of construction.
Pete,
No offense but are you authorised to say that on behalf of whoever owns A-S these days?

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Post by Peter Brown on Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:58 am

Pete Taylor wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:.........

There s no change in the method of construction.
Pete,
No offense but are you authorised to say that on behalf of whoever owns A-S these days?

I can't understand why the question is asked? As far as I know, no one using this forum has any authority from anybody to say anything.

With respect to the construction method, I'm just reporting what I have seen, ie one of the materials used in the panels has been changed but the method of assembling them has not.

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Post by Pete Taylor on Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:57 am

Pete,
I think what has possibly caused some confusion (certainly for me) is that it says under your name "Staff Member" which originally I took to mean that you worked for A-S but I now believe means that you have an admin function on this forum (I do know that you are one of the best-informed and helpful members who post on here).

I can't find any reference to the change of materials on the A-S website but clearly (as reported on the dealer website)  there now is a GRP sandwich which may, or may not, contain a timber frame as part of the filling. The industry does seem to be moving away from moisture-absorbent materials, which makes sense.

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Post by Peter Brown on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:01 am

As a member of ASOC, I spent 4 days on the AS stand at the NEC so had ample time to inspect vans and ask questions.

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Post by Peter Brown on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:35 am

Pete Taylor wrote: The industry does seem to be moving away from moisture-absorbent materials, which makes sense.

I had a trip around the Morgan car factory this summer. They still maintain that wood is the most resilient material with which to construct a vehicle chassis.

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Post by groundhog on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:34 am

We are all different but I really like that new rear end look and the lights....very modern. allthumbz
Combine that with the anticipated sprinter hybrid and that could be some machine!
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Post by Maasai Warrior on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:38 am

Hi Peter, I hope you don’t mind me asking, I am not a member of Auto Sleepers Owners Club at the moment, but are you the present Chairman of ASOC?

Pete
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Post by Liam on Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:14 am

Peter Brown wrote:
Pete Taylor wrote: The industry does seem to be moving away from moisture-absorbent materials, which makes sense.

I had a trip around the Morgan car factory this summer.  They still maintain that wood is the most resilient material with which to construct a vehicle chassis.
The Mosquito Aircraft - one of the most successful a/c in WW11 employed the wooden structure principal and with proper maintenance it survived in-service until 1963!
Until an alternative such as carbon becomes affordable to the motor-home builders I think wood will remain the material of choice, for some builders, in order to provide the necessary rigidity and structure support that they want in their design. 
After all, moisture only penetrates the structure into the wood because the bonding or sealing was inadequate at the build stage or at some subsequent repair. 
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Post by groundhog on Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:10 am

You must have watched the excellent programme last night Liam
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Post by Liam on Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:12 am

groundhog wrote:You must have watched the excellent programme last night Liam
No, I missed that - will have to see it on catch-up!
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Post by Peter Brown on Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:53 pm

Maasai Warrior wrote:Hi Peter, I hope you don’t mind me asking, I am not a member of Auto Sleepers Owners Club at the moment, but are you the present Chairman of ASOC?

Pete

I try to keep a 'Chinese wall' between my ASOC and ASOF activities but, yes.

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Post by Pete Taylor on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:51 pm

Liam wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:
Pete Taylor wrote: The industry does seem to be moving away from moisture-absorbent materials, which makes sense.

I had a trip around the Morgan car factory this summer.  They still maintain that wood is the most resilient material with which to construct a vehicle chassis.
The Mosquito Aircraft - one of the most successful a/c in WW11 employed the wooden structure principal and with proper maintenance it survived in-service until 1963!
Until an alternative such as carbon becomes affordable to the motor-home builders I think wood will remain the material of choice, for some builders, in order to provide the necessary rigidity and structure support that they want in their design. 
After all, moisture only penetrates the structure into the wood because the bonding or sealing was inadequate at the build stage or at some subsequent repair. 
Liam
Not in all theatres of war- in extreme heat and damp/humid places they de-laminated and fell to pieces. The outer surface of the aircraft was woven fabric, plastered on with dope. Recommended reading- Mosquito: the Wooden Wonder by Edward Bishop.
My Uncle did a couple of tours in them; I only wish I had recorded his stories and then written up the book; he knocked half a wing off on a mill chimney in Belgium but it brought him home and it was flying within a week. Also he did a whole trip with an engine that failed on take-off; he didn't fancy trying to land with a full bomb load and his NZ navigator, having come half-way around the world, could not bear to dump the ordnance in the oggin; so they went off-piste and found a gas works to flatten!
He ended his war in Canada, training new pilots; at that time the going rate for a serviceable Mosquito, with full tanks from Goose Bay, was £25; three of them seriously debated bringing one over and starting up in the aerial photography business. Common sense prevailed and they came back on a ship and bought a C47, which was much more sensible, being slow, free from vibration and able to have racks of cameras, room for the crew to walk around and... a galley! They surveyed much of the UK (and then Europe) looking for unexploded bomb patterns.


Incidentally, ever since HFS Morgan built his first car (in 1909) every single one of them has had a steel chassis; what most of them have had is a body-frame made of timber; the exceptions being the glass-fibre Plus-4-Plus and the SLR. However; Peter, I take your point. Surely the Morgan must be the only car in production which includes both a damp-proof course and Bayonet tacks on it's parts list? rolleyes


As for the back panel of the new A-S models, I quite like the shape but am not too struck on the lighting units. Presumably they come off some mass-produced vehicle but what is it? Will spares be avail able in 10 years?

How's that for "thread-drift"? hugegrins

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