Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:41 pm

Hi,

We have an '89 Rapport that has been struggling with running problems for a while.

The T1100 is a 1721cc petrol engine, with a Solex carb and has been picked up by the RAC three times so far - don't want another trip on the back of a recovery truck again..!!!

Generally, the engine used to run for a while (anything between 40 and 1,000 miles), then would start spluttering and finally stopped (when hot). Having looked at the pre-fuel pump filter, petrol was not being drawn into the pump. But, if you let it cool down for a couple of hours, it started again, would run for a while, then stop etc....

This has happened twice.

Since then, I have checked the fuel pump and everything seems fine. Carb looked ok (haven't stripped it though). Checked timing - fine. Checked distributor/plugs - fine. 

Since then, we have taken it out for a short camping trip after it had allegedly been repaired by a local garage (who said it was a dodgy wire..?!?!) - went camping and it was okay, not perfect, but bearable.

On the trip home, we had the spluttering and cut out again...... Full stop - not running at all - whether cool or warm.....Spins over, but just dead....!!

Since getting it home, I have fiddled with the carb settings (not sure what it has done), force fed it fuel - direct into the choke and eventually got it running very badly.... Hunting like mad and would not run without full choke.

I then tried a second-hand carb, which didn't do much else, but the van ran.

Re-installed the original carb and nursed it to the garage.

They just tightened a hose that seemed to be letting in some air and tweaked the carb settings. Still runs like crap...!!! Then said they have no idea what is wrong.

I'm throwing it out here, so that someone may be able to help as I am at a loss - it seems such a simple, basic engine that I'm really frustrated.

Any ideas will be gladly welcommed.....

Many thanks... allthumbz
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:43 pm

If there are any Renault Autosleeper specialists or just knowledeable folk up North, could you let me know please...!!
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by boxerman on Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:47 pm

Have you checked the coil? or more accurately, have you checked that you are getting a good spark when it dies out?
Fuelling problems are often ignition related.

Frank
avatar
boxerman
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 3756
Auto-Sleeper : '95 Symphony

View user profile http://www.rtmr.org

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by boxerman on Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:04 pm

Just been checking content
I have some pages from the Haynes carburettor manual for the Solex SE1A scanned into a .pdf file if it is of any use to you?

Frank
avatar
boxerman
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 3756
Auto-Sleeper : '95 Symphony

View user profile http://www.rtmr.org

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:26 pm

Those pages would be a godsend please boxerman....!!

Many thanks for the speedy reply.
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:27 pm

The spark seems fine and it appears to be more of a fuelling issue.

Might just rebuild the carb and see what happens first.
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by boxerman on Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:37 pm

PM me your email address and I'll send it to you.

BTW where in the North West are you?

Frank
avatar
boxerman
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 3756
Auto-Sleeper : '95 Symphony

View user profile http://www.rtmr.org

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:42 pm

Done.

Cheers Frank.
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by Bartfarst on Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:58 pm

I too reckon that ignition issues are just as likely as fuel problems, and I would recommend that you got someone else to take a good look at it before you potentially compound problems by speculatively stripping and rebuilding the carb.

I am unfamiliar with the Rapport's engine: please could you describe the ignition system? Does it have a conventional/old fashioned distributor and coil, or a coil 'pack' with leads and coil as one integral unit?

One technique I used to use in the 'old days' was to run the engine at night and with conditions as dark as you can get them, checking for sparking or 'purple haze' anywhere over the high tension side of the electronics. As an alternative, if you run your hands over the HT system then you might get a belt off it (if you've got a pacemaker then ignore this) indicating a breakdown of insulation somewhere. Such problems are very moisture-sensitive so that might account for the intermittent nature of your rough running.

Hope this helps.


Bartfarst
avatar
Bartfarst
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 692
Auto-Sleeper : 1995 Boxer Harmony

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:03 pm

Many thanks Bartfast.

The engine is a straight-forward 1721cc petrol, naturally aspirated engine, flat coil with heat sink, fixed distributor (at end of camshaft), fixed timing points and crankshaft location point for timing setups.

The manual says there is a TDC probe on the flywheel, so not to sure if that may be worth looking at as well - just because hunting usually suggests timing problems - even though all the marks/dizzy are perfectly aligned.

I will check the ignition system, but it seems fine as I have had no twitches from the electrics yet.

Good idea running it at night as well - might just give it a go..!!
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by -mojo- on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:14 pm

I had exactly the same problem on my Rapport (which was same engine and roughly the same year as yours) - I could get the engine to run Ok on the throttle, but it simply would not idle. I took it to a local garage but they could not find the cause and I had to drive it home while left-foot braking to keep it running.

The only way I could solve the issue on mine was to replace the carb (which I had rebuilt once or possibly twice to no effect). I came to the conclusion that it was a casting fault in the body of the carb and that a crack had opened up inside it and was leaking air somewhere.

However... I concede that it would seem a bit unlikely that a casting fault would be a common problem!
avatar
-mojo-
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 3508
Auto-Sleeper : Trooper

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by boxerman on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:19 pm

ptate wrote:Many thanks Bartfast.

The engine is a straight-forward 1721cc petrol, naturally aspirated engine, flat coil with heat sink, fixed distributor (at end of camshaft), fixed timing points and crankshaft location point for timing setups.

The manual says there is a TDC probe on the flywheel, so not to sure if that may be worth looking at as well - just because hunting usually suggests timing problems - even though all the marks/dizzy are perfectly aligned.

I will check the ignition system, but it seems fine as I have had no twitches from the electrics yet.

Good idea running it at night as well - might just give it a go..!!

The ignition system is [or should be] a Renix electronic system with no points, just a pickup next to the flywheel.

Frank
avatar
boxerman
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 3756
Auto-Sleeper : '95 Symphony

View user profile http://www.rtmr.org

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by Bartfarst on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:19 pm

OK Ptate, thanks for the information.

So if the engine has a TDC sensor, do you think it might have a rudimentary ECU somewhere, or does the sensor form an input to electronic ignition? If the former, and this is a real long shot, it might have diagnostics interface, but my suspicion is that it may be too early for that stuff. FYI the early Boxers (1994 on) had a 'flash code' system to provide basic fault information and there is just a chance that this might have something similar.

If air leaks are an issue, a quick spray with light oil or perhaps even WD40 on various parts of the system might just identify their location: little sprays only, with the engine running so you can listen for a change in engine running.

Having described the ignition system, would you like to fill us in on the fuel system? Is there an electric lift pump of just a good old fashioned engine-driven fuel pump?


Bartfarst
avatar
Bartfarst
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 692
Auto-Sleeper : 1995 Boxer Harmony

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by Bartfarst on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:23 pm

OK Frank,

I'm unfamiliar with the Renix system. I assume it has a distributor-mounted power transistor at its heart, but these things normally go phut and fail, rather than an intermittent fault.

Stuart
avatar
Bartfarst
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 692
Auto-Sleeper : 1995 Boxer Harmony

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by boxerman on Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:31 pm

Bartfarst wrote:OK Frank,

I'm unfamiliar with the Renix system. I assume it has a distributor-mounted power transistor at its heart, but these things normally go phut and fail, rather than an intermittent fault.

Stuart
Hi Stuart
The coil is part of the ECU but is detachable and available separately. The distributor just distributes the sparks.
I agree - they usually go altogether if they go.
Frank
avatar
boxerman
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 3756
Auto-Sleeper : '95 Symphony

View user profile http://www.rtmr.org

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:39 am

Thanks very much for all the replies...... It's very much appreciated.

The fuel pump is a machanical unit that runs off the camshaft and is set up on the head.

As for the electronics - it's a black art to me....

Having been brought up spannering on old Fords, then through Rover V8's; the newer stuff with ECU's and electronics just causes me headaches....

Shame it can't be replaced with a points system and old-fashioned coil.... hugegrins

Never mind, I'm going to have a look at the coil, sensor and electronics, but have a gut feeling that the carb is the real culprit here - maybe I'm just fixating on it.....haha
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by boxerman on Tue Jun 27, 2017 9:07 am

Have a look at THIS PAGE for ignition diagnostics. I know it says Volvo but its the same system.

Frank
avatar
boxerman
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 3756
Auto-Sleeper : '95 Symphony

View user profile http://www.rtmr.org

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:49 am

Fantastic info on that page Frank.

Better dig out the meter now...!!
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:08 am

You can see the old gal in the avatar now...... up!
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by Bartfarst on Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:44 pm

Great find Frank - very useful information.

Not been through it with a fine tooth comb yet, but I was wondering if the vacuum advance may be a suspect worth investigating too? Loss of vacuum through leakage will mess the ECU map, and potentially provide an air leak into intake too.

Bartfarst
avatar
Bartfarst
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 692
Auto-Sleeper : 1995 Boxer Harmony

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:47 pm

I'll be checking the vacuum pipe first of all.... Just hope it is something as simple...! agree3
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by Bartfarst on Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:51 pm

That said, the guy on the forum says that rotor arms and dizzy caps are prime sources of failure. Have you had a look at those?
avatar
Bartfarst
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 692
Auto-Sleeper : 1995 Boxer Harmony

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Tue Jun 27, 2017 4:55 pm

Had the dizzy cap off and checked the rotor arm as well - they both got replaced about 2 years ago and are like new - no visible damage or cracks.

Checked the plugs/leads as well as I had an old Range Rover years ago who had an intermittent misfire that was due to them. Went through two expensive sets.....

Just wish my Mazda Bongo engine/manual box would fit as they've been unbelievably reliable....

Still, if I can get to the bottom of this, I'll be happy as the engine seemed decent when it was running well.
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by Bartfarst on Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:18 pm

Keep at it ptate and don't give up.

I propose we convene a forum work party at your place if your initial efforts don't succeed!

Bartfarst
avatar
Bartfarst
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 692
Auto-Sleeper : 1995 Boxer Harmony

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Autosleeper Rapport - Idling Problems

Post by ptate on Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:53 am

hugegrins hugegrins hugegrins hugegrins

Work party sounds like a good idea.......!!!

I'm trying to check out the van in a logical way, so start with the simple bits and then gradually get more difficult.

So:

1. Loose pipes/connections - still need to check vacuum on ECU
2. Plugs/leads
3. Dizzy and rotor
4. Fuel pump
5. Carb settings
6. Coil
7. ECU
8. Carb internals - Rebuild kit if I can find one.
9. Compression test - Seems fine anyway, but....!
10. Valves/piston rings - hopefully not anything so bad...!!!
11. A big match and firelighters... Last resort.

Up to number 6 at present.
avatar
ptate
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 48
Auto-Sleeper : Rapport 1100

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum