12v problems when hooked up

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by stuart90 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 3:38 pm

Hi, I Have measured amps between the leisure negative wire and terminal with the following results: All with no hookup
nothing on 0
12v switched on zig control panel 4.94
each tube light approx 5.08
 two 21watt lights 5.58 each
water pump 5.90
Fridge 5.04
I don't know if this helps and I hope I did it right.
I don't think I have located the fridge relay as yet.
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by meanchris on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:11 pm

You shouldn't be able to power the fridge with the 12V, so that's one of your problems.

Could the heater fan be responsible for the "12v switched on zig control panel 4.94"?

Was there anything else powered on at that time?

The readings also seem to be too high for the lighting loads


Last edited by meanchris on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by Alf on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:20 pm

I have seen after market tank heaters on similar vehicles it would be worth checking the fresh water tank for such a heater.
Check to see if the TV amplifier is turned off do you have a roof or wall can.

What is the battery voltage.

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by stuart90 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:34 pm

The battery had charged to 13.21
The fan amps are 2.4
I haven't tested the loo.
I don't think it has a tank heater.
The tv arial is switched off
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by meanchris on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:36 pm

stuart90 wrote:The battery had charged to 13.21

How?

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by stuart90 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:41 pm

I charged the battery over night on hookup with the charger I fitted s it was flat after yesterdays test.
Alf what is a roof or wall can?
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by meanchris on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:54 pm

Two things which seem to be emerging:

1. The fridge is wired wrongly, so that it can be run from the habitation 12V

2. The charger/PSU either isn't working, or isn't switched on.

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by Alf on Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:56 pm

stuart90 wrote:I charged the battery over night on hookup with the charger I fitted s it was flat after yesterdays test.
Alf what is a roof or wall can?
FAN sorry
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by stuart90 on Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:03 pm

I'm happy to leave the fridge 12v disconnected if that will help as it was never very effective.
I thought there was a small charge to the leisure battery from the zig chaarger on hookup but not sure how much.
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by brodco on Tue May 02, 2017 1:27 pm

Hi wave

stuart90 wrote:
nothing on 0
12v switched on zig control panel 4.94
each tube light approx 5.08
 two 21watt lights 5.58 each
water pump 5.90
Fridge 5.04
I don't know if this helps and I hope I did it right.
I don't think I have located the fridge relay as yet.

Don’t even think about the fridge at the moment, just leave it disconnected.

Humm   scratch head it’s a bit odd that everything reads around 5A still it looks as if we’re beginning to get somewhere. up!

If you switch the 12V on on the control panel (with nothing else switched on) and get 4.94 that clearly means something is taking current that shouldn’t be but a 21W light should take around 1.75 amps so when you switch it on the current should go up to 6.69.

I would suggest that a sanity check would be a good idea before we go any further. Firstly just confirm (or not as the case may be) that this is how you measured the current:



Secondly just to check that the meter is reading correctly you can measure the current of a 21W bulb independently like this:



If all is well just double check that with the battery charged and:

the Zig disconnected,

the fridge disconnected,

and all lights (and anything else you can think of) are off,

the current is still 0 with the 12V switch off and 4.96 when you switch it on. If it is we need to fix that before going on to any other problem.

Don’t try and check anything else at the same time, it’ll only lead to confusion (although some would say that’s my natural state anyway) hugegrins

Brod

P.S. Switch the 12V on while you are doing a test and then switch if off again afterwards (or disconnect the negative again) afterwards. That way you shouldn’t have to keep charging the battery.
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by stuart90 on Wed May 03, 2017 10:14 am

Hi Brod, I measured amps as advised and the same as drawing 1. I disconnected the battery and using a 21w bulb from the camper measured 1.8 amps on the battery. Your drawings are impressive.
The leisure is back on charge and up to 13.65
Stuart
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by brodco on Wed May 03, 2017 10:55 am

Hi wave
stuart90 wrote: I measured amps as advised and the same as drawing 1. I disconnected the battery and using a 21w bulb from the camper measured 1.8 amps on the battery. Your drawings are impressive.The leisure is back on charge and up to 13.65
Excellent!  up!

So now it’s a matter of finding what’s drawing current with everything switched off. We know that whatever it is is connected via the control unit because the 12V switch turns it on and off. I assume you’ve already had a good look around for anything hat might be left on.

Have you got a set of fuses in your Zig control unit? If so you can remove each fuse in turn and see if the drain disappears. That would give you a clue. If not you may have to unscrew the control unit and see what other wires are behind there. It’ll be a case of disconnecting wires until the problem goes away. Then you’ll know the problem is down that wire.

Just make sure that everything you know about is switched off so as not to confuse the results. When we get to the point where the drain is zero with the switch on or off we can move on to the next problem (if there is one).

Brod
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by stuart90 on Wed May 03, 2017 11:50 am

allthumbz
brodco wrote:Just make sure that everything you know about is switched off so as not to confuse the results. When we get to the point where the drain is zero with the switch on or off we can move on to the next problem (if there is one).

The bottom left of 6 fuses gave a zero reading when removed. The cover indicates it is the fridge/water gauge and should be 2amps, the fuse I removed has '8amp continuous 15amp blow' written on it.
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by stuart90 on Wed May 03, 2017 12:16 pm

Hi, if it helps as mentioned previously we would not miss the 12v aspect of the fridge and we don't use the water gauge as the water tank is so small we can guess when the two bucketfuls have run out.
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by bikeralw on Wed May 03, 2017 1:36 pm

When you say the 2 amp fuse supplies the 12 volts to the fridge, this can only be to the gas ignitor. As has been said, when the engine is running the 12 volt element will be drawing nearer to 10 amps.
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by meanchris on Wed May 03, 2017 2:19 pm

The gas igniter has very low current draw, I seem to remember reading that it can be powered with a 9V battery in an emergency.

It's either a pretty obscure fault or something else has also been connected to that fuse circuit as well as the two original loads.

I can't see that the water level sensor (though I don't know what type it will be on an '88 van) can draw 4 amps plus.

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by inspiredron on Wed May 03, 2017 3:13 pm

bikeralw wrote:When you say the 2 amp fuse supplies the 12 volts to the fridge, this can only be to the gas ignitor. As has been said, when the engine is running the 12 volt element will be drawing nearer to 10 amps.
I believe that old Electrolux fridges had a 96W 12V element - 8 amps continuous 15 amp blow!
It looks a sthough the previous owner saw "fridge" on the 2A fuse, wired the fridge element to the same terminal and found that he needed a bigger fuse!  Ouch!
I wonder whether there is a relay anywhere. Probably not.  And waht guage wire has been used to feed that 8A/10A load?
Has Stuart connected the two different 12V terminals (igniter and element) to the same feed? It is possible that the two are connected together behind the fridge or its control panel.  The igniter is a permanent feed (with hab electrics on) while the element should be separate and switched from the (non-existent?) fridge relay which is controlled by the alternator output.
Who swapped the 2A fuse (that kept blowing) for the 8A continuous fuse?

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by stuart90 on Wed May 03, 2017 3:52 pm

Hi Ron
I have never had need to change a fuse on the zig control and I wouldn't have the know how to change the wiring. I didn't realise the lighter was wired up as it sounded machanical the way it makes such a bang when you press the button, but having looked at wiring diagrams I can see that it is.
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by meanchris on Wed May 03, 2017 4:08 pm

Maybe it is mechanical on your fridge, if it has mechanical resistance then clicks through it with a bang, certainly sounds like it might be a piezoelectric one.

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by cyclo on Wed May 03, 2017 4:34 pm

I don't want to interfere with the excellent advice you are receiving on the electrics. I had a fridge in my old caravan

which had a mechanical igniter, the button was red, round and stuck out some way from where it was fixed. To light it

you had to press in the button until the gas burner lit. With a 12v igniter it would be a rocker switch, when you switch 

it to the on position the spark is created by the 12v supply.

David
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by meanchris on Wed May 03, 2017 4:37 pm

That's what I'm thinking.

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by stuart90 on Wed May 03, 2017 5:00 pm

Hi David, I think you are right, I just found a hand book for the fridge on line,
'The bottled gas equipment includes a Piezo


which creates a spark over the burner when the button (4) is pushed

in fully. No batteries or flints are required to operate this lighter'.
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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by meanchris on Wed May 03, 2017 6:46 pm

So, what is that fuse supplying that's drawing over 4A?

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by Alf on Wed May 03, 2017 7:30 pm

DIY fitted fridge remember ?

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Re: 12v problems when hooked up

Post by inspiredron on Wed May 03, 2017 7:41 pm

Without usurping Brodco's analysis, I think that my next step would be to disconnect the fridge from 12V (it does not have an internal light does it?) and then see if your problem has gone away.
If it has then it will be to do with the fridge 12V electrics.  You can then decide whether to do without 12V fridge operation altogether or to rewire (get rewired) the 12V properly, via a relay.  Legend owners may be able to advise on where to find or to put the appropriate relay.
If the problem remains then  - well ??????? Back to square 1 which might be a short on the water gauge or its wiring.

What do you reckon Brodco?

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