Kingham

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Kingham

Post by DRPH on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:33 am

Hi, we bought a Kingham new in November 2016.; it has a dometic toilet. From the outset we have had 'water' in the toilet cassette compartment. It is still under warranty. For the best part of a year the dealer could not find a leak. Eventually, they determined that water from the shower was tracking down on to the pull-out handle. Dometic said - No problem (user error in other words) if used from above. Auto Sleepers finally came up with a solution to fit a shield over the pull-out handle. It didn't work. Like you, every time we went to empty the cassette there would be a good deal of water in the compartment. At first, we too thought that it was from the toliet (urine).

The dealer suggested covering the toilet with a plastic bin bag to see for definite if it is water getting in from the shower via the toilet. We tried it at the week-end, and hey, no water in the compartment. The dealer is getting a bespoke cover made, which is all well and good as a temporary measure, but we didn't pay £50K+for a solution like this. The dealer is at a loss as they say that no other similar cases are known either to them or to Auto-Sleepers - UNLESS of course, you know otherwise. The dealer has never refused to try and sort out the problem but now has the evidence to go to AS to ask them to resolve the matter properly.

Additionally, when we shower, the toilet bowl collects a huge amount of water, even tough the lid is closed, so we have to drain this by pulling out the sliding blade before we empty the cassette. We usually leave this a minute or so before closing the sliding blade again.

I hope that this helps and would appreciate any information from you that may help us.

Thanks
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Re: Kingham

Post by Machloop on Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:03 am

You should ask Autosleeper to replace the toilet unit under warranty. Eventually this water is going to rot the back of the van.

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Re: Kingham

Post by mikethebike on Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:28 pm

Your supplying dealer is responsible  in law.
Return it and ask for a replacement vehicle.
I believe under the new legislation you can get your money back for faulty goods.


Regards

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Re: Kingham

Post by DRPH on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:37 pm

Thanks. 

We are at that stage and the dealer knows this. As it stands, the van is not fit for purpose; this is not a minor fault. I will dutifully try the bespoke cover when it arrives. If it works, and I assume that it will, it means only the symptom and not the cause has been treated. So at that stage formally rejecting the van is then fully justified, as will be other action. Watch this space. 

I am trying to identify anyone else who has had a similar problem.
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Re: Kingham

Post by Paulmold on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:03 pm

Excerpt from sale of goods act..

If you discover the fault within the first six months after buying the product, it is presumed to have been there since the time of purchase - unless the retailer can prove otherwise.
During this time, it's up to the retailer to prove that the fault wasn't there when you bought it - it's not up to you to prove that it was. 
If an attempt at repair or replacement has failed, you have the right to reject the goods for a full refund or price reduction - if you wish to keep the product.
The retailer can't make any deductions from your refund in the first six months following an unsuccessful attempt at repair or replacement.
The only exception to this rule is motor vehicles, where the retailer may make a reasonable reduction for the use you've already had of the vehicle after the first 30 days.
If you'd prefer to keep the goods in question, you can request an appropriate price reduction.

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Re: Kingham

Post by Peter Brown on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:47 pm

Am I right that the Kingham has a wet room with the shower over the toilet?

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Re: Kingham

Post by Machloop on Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:06 am

Peter Brown wrote:Am I right that the Kingham has a wet room with the shower over the toilet?
Yes, when using the shower, the water sprays all over the toilet and, in this case, is somehow getting into the toilet bowl.  The only way this could happen would appear to be around the toilet lid or via the slide that opens the loo blade.  Unless, of course, the unit is cracked somewhere.

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Re: Kingham

Post by DRPH on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:34 am

Peter Brown wrote:Am I right that the Kingham has a wet room with the shower over the toilet?
Yes. A dometic toilet.
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Re: Kingham

Post by DRPH on Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:44 am

Machloop wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:Am I right that the Kingham has a wet room with the shower over the toilet?
Yes, when using the shower, the water sprays all over the toilet and, in this case, is somehow getting into the toilet bowl.  The only way this could happen would appear to be around the toilet lid or via the slide that opens the loo blade.  Unless, of course, the unit is cracked somewhere.
I think that it gets in under the lid as the toliet bowl is full of water after showering. I have even suggested to the dealer that it might be the wrong toilet!

The dealer has had the toilet and its cassette compartment out of the van. The cassette has been changes. 
This forum is very helpful because, as I am sure some contributors probably know how it feels to be at the end of an unending saga of problems. We have had all kinds of problems, some of them minor, and which I would expect, given the nature of these vehicles, but some are just poor quality control. At one point, the vehicle had been off the road 20% of the time we had owned it. It really feels like a Friday night job. Pity, because it is a lovely van. I think AS should take it off our hands and replace it whilst they solve it at their leisure, not our.
There is a forum member with a Symbol from whom I am awaiting a reply, who looks to have a similar problem.
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Re: Kingham

Post by Peter Brown on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:04 am

I have no experience of a Dometic toilet but my brother had one in a Burstner and had similar problems to those you describe, as I recall there was a minute crack in the ceramic bowl - is that the construction you have?

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Re: Kingham

Post by Machloop on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:08 am

DRPH wrote:
The dealer has had the toilet and its cassette compartment out of the van. The cassette has been changed.
Why change the cassette?  It's the toilet bowl that is letting in water.

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Re: Kingham

Post by Gromit on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:17 am

DRPH wrote:
Peter Brown wrote:Am I right that the Kingham has a wet room with the shower over the toilet?
Yes, when using the shower, the water sprays all over the toilet and, in this case, is somehow getting into the toilet bowl.  The only way this could happen would appear to be around the toilet lid or via the slide that opens the loo blade.  Unless, of course, the unit is cracked somewhere.

First of all, I don't know your van at all, so this might be a load of rubbish.

If it's any help, we had a "wet room" in a previous van, and although we didn't have your problem we didn't want the toilet soaked with water every time we showered. A daft, and easily avoidable situation for A/S to remedy during the build!! shrugg

I fixed it very easily by re-routing the shower curtain rail (had to buy a longer one) so the curtain could be drawn round and draped over the toilet to keep it dry during a shower. Fortunately the curtain itself was wide enough, so it cost very little and was an easy job.

You may be able to do something similar (or get A/S to do it for you). It's not something you should have to do, but if it would work and allow you to keep the van you love, it could be worth a shot.

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Re: Kingham

Post by Machloop on Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:43 am

Gromit wrote:
First of all, I don't know your van at all, so this might be a load of rubbish.
No suggestions here are rubbish but it's worth pointing out that the Kingdom 'bathroom' is very small.  The ability to lean-over/sit-on the loo whilst showering is a must for us grown ups.
hugegrins

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Re: Kingham

Post by DRPH on Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:40 am

Thanks to everyone. I appreciate the help. I just wish the dealer/manufacturer listened as closely.
Yes the toilet is ceramic.  I think that the issue is that the shower water should not get into the toilet bowl at all. Neither should water from the pull-out blade track water into the cassette housing. No other van, if the dealer is to be believed, exhibits such a problem. This suggests that a new toilet and or shower compartment is required. Alternatively, a replacement van, especially one that doesn't leak.

The shower curtain option isn't viable I'm afraid because of the shower head/toilet configuration and, as Machloop comments, the shower compartment is small.

As an aside, in the last 3 weeks we have lost 2 fresh water drain taps whilst travelling. The first time was on the motorway when a fellow van signaled the problem. the second, last week end, also took away the drain pipe as well. I am meticulous about ensuring that they are fully clipped in. I have now added a cable tie and will replace this with a bespoke bungee from the local caravan parts dealer who tells me that this is a common problem. Is it?
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Re: Kingham

Post by Wargenwolf on Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:01 am

What do you think the chances are that Auto-Sleeper have listened to all of the customer complaints and got their act together for my Kingham! which I'm due to pick up in a few weeks Whistle1

Ever the optimist, I've started my daily mantra.... Think positive, Think sunshine , Think warm fluffy thoughts hugegrins

I might even get the Euromillions  if I keep trying hard lol4lol4

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Re: Kingham

Post by Machloop on Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:11 pm

Wargenwolf wrote:What do you think the chances are that Auto-Sleeper have listened to all of the customer complaints and got their act together for my Kingham! 
None whatsoever !  If anyone at autosleepers do read this forum they keep well hidden.  Many problems on here are nothing to do with AS and others are things that they have no control over but some are damming. Nobody ever even commented on my [and others] Kingham side seat fault [not even to say 'thanks for the thread we are looking into it'].  And, as for this leaking toilet, they should arrange collection of the van and replace the whole bathroom pod if necessary. 


Last edited by Machloop on Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Kingham

Post by Peter Brown on Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:38 pm

DRPH wrote:

As an aside, in the last 3 weeks we have lost 2 fresh water drain taps whilst travelling. The first time was on the motorway when a fellow van signaled the problem. the second, last week end, also took away the drain pipe as well. I am meticulous about ensuring that they are fully clipped in. I have now added a cable tie and will replace this with a bespoke bungee from the local caravan parts dealer who tells me that this is a common problem. Is it?

Assuming your installation is the same as mine, this is a common problem and I always have a spare tap in the van.  The tap retaining clip is 270° with two small spigots.  The design is so that if hit by a stone or kerb, the tap will unclip rather than damage the body it is attached too (much less likely to happen on a van than on a coachbuilt).

If the tap gets knocked out of the clip en-route, it drags on the road and is either pulled out and lost or severely damaged.  You can see the tie arrangement I employ in the photo below to prevent damage and it does work.


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Re: Kingham

Post by Machloop on Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:44 pm

DRPH wrote:Yes the toilet is ceramic. 
Surely a ceramic bowl would be far too heavy to use in a panel van. I can't find the exact material spec but the cleaning instructions appear to point to a scratchable  surface [so not ceramic].  Link to dometic pdf



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Re: Kingham

Post by Machloop on Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:09 pm

But it might not be too heavy with a 'ceramic insert'.  [Just spotted this in the Kingham handbook]. 


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Re: Kingham

Post by DRPH on Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:02 pm

Thanks to everyone. 
1. Drain arrangement isn't quite the same but I have attached a tie so that hopefully it will at least keep the pipe bit off the floor should it get knocked off on route. I have a spare tap on order at the local dealer. 
2. When the cover arrives I will post a photo - should at least give everyone a laugh. 
3. The side/bench seat falling off is well-known to dealer/AS, yet they haven't done anything about it. We have a throw on ours to keep it clean from the dogs brushing against it. (Dogs not allowed on seat) and it works wonderfully well. I would think that a bit of sticky-back velcro would do the trick.

There are, of course, lots of niggles with a new van and hopefully most of them are small issues. Some, however, are quite fundamental and I would have thought that AS and dealers would listen to customers (such as you folk who are clearly very knowledgeable) and resolve them early. Apparently not.!

When I took the van back to the dealer this week, it knows its own way by now, the yard was full of new, big vans. It reminded me of what happened at Barrons after Discover took over. They got greedy; standards fell; customers became disillusioned and shopped elsewhere. And we all know what happened to Discover.

I still think that the Kingham is a great design; yes it could do with a few nips and tucks, but the build quality needs to match the design and rhetoric. 

Thanks again everyone.
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Re: Kingham

Post by mikethebike on Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:32 pm

Hi Peter.  Is that blue clip broken or upside down or both!


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Re: Kingham

Post by Peter Brown on Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:47 pm

mikethebike wrote:Hi Peter.  Is that blue clip broken or upside down or both!


Micky


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Re: Kingham

Post by Wargenwolf on Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:41 pm

DRPH wrote:Thanks to everyone. 
1. Drain arrangement isn't quite the same but I have attached a tie so that hopefully it will at least keep the pipe bit off the floor should it get knocked off on route. I have a spare tap on order at the local dealer. 
2. When the cover arrives I will post a photo - should at least give everyone a laugh. 
3. The side/bench seat falling off is well-known to dealer/AS, yet they haven't done anything about it. We have a throw on ours to keep it clean from the dogs brushing against it. (Dogs not allowed on seat) and it works wonderfully well. I would think that a bit of sticky-back velcro would do the trick.

There are, of course, lots of niggles with a new van and hopefully most of them are small issues. Some, however, are quite fundamental and I would have thought that AS and dealers would listen to customers (such as you folk who are clearly very knowledgeable) and resolve them early. Apparently not.!

When I took the van back to the dealer this week, it knows its own way by now, the yard was full of new, big vans. It reminded me of what happened at Barrons after Discover took over. They got greedy; standards fell; customers became disillusioned and shopped elsewhere. And we all know what happened to Discover.

I still think that the Kingham is a great design; yes it could do with a few nips and tucks, but the build quality needs to match the design and rhetoric. 

Thanks again everyone.
I really do hope you get the faults rectified to your satisfaction and I'm pleased you are still able to compliment the design of the Kingham. For a solo traveller (not including the Labrador) the design ticked a load of boxes for me. 

Auto-Sleeper's reputation for quality also featured strongly in my decision making process, I only hope my faith in the brand doesn't prove to be misplaced, as some of the issues raised on here don't seem to improve.

I am a firm believer in the premis that for every disgruntled owner discussing quality issues on open forums, there are far many more owners out there enjoying their vans, relatively trouble free and not partaking in such forums. 

Time will tell and until proven otherwise, I remain hopeful allthumbz

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Re: Kingham

Post by Machloop on Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:34 pm

Wargenwolf wrote:I am a firm believer in the premise that for every disgruntled owner discussing quality issues on open forums, there are far many more owners out there enjoying their vans, relatively trouble free and not partaking in such forums. 
I must admit that we are extremely happy with the Kingham, an almost perfect layout for us and we like the FIAT [even though its not the best auto box in the world], not even the best on our drive ! It's just that after ploughing almost £60,000 into the van, extras and modifications I expected a bit of service and loyalty from AS and the dealers. The extras fitted by the dealer were all an overpriced joke [the mud flaps were too small for a little car and could have been £4.99 off ebay] they cost me £200 fitted but I'd thought that I would get FIAT van size flaps when I ordered them. And, as for AS, nothing, they are keeping well out of the way of customers. Would I buy another AS, hell yes! And another Kingdom too, but my jobs will be done by my own mechanic not those jokers at the dealers.

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Re: Kingham

Post by sylvester1954 on Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:02 pm

I am very much with Matchloop on the Kingham and we looked around the NEC last month really to confirm that there was nothing else out there to beat the van in question. However, like many on here we have had a number of niggles over the past 18 months some of which I have posted on this site before now.The curtain pelmet falling off, the sliding bathroom door dropping out, rear speakers faulty, side bench/seat slipping of when you go around a bend, grey water drain pipe splitting (twice), faulty fresh/grey water readings on the panel...etc although no leaking toilets (yet). All niggles and yet I do wish that AS would take note of the issues so many of us raise on this forum and give us all some credit for the loyalty that we show to the company. BUT as I said I still love the van and already looking forward to the next trip abroad at Easter and yes I would still recommend it to others.
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