Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by gordyjackson on Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:37 am

Hi Guys,
 
Did some travelling at night this last week and a few times I would have liked to have been able to have lights on in the rear when we were moving.   Also simple things like the toilet flush etc are all off and the kids were fumbling around in the pitch black!

I guess it's part of the switchover relay that activates power to the fridge whilst shutting off the power to the leisure circuit.
I wondered if there was a simple way of overriding this and I may even set it up with a 'master' switch in the drivers area so that I can switch all the lighting off again when need be?

Any thoughts??

Best Regards
Gordon
avatar
gordyjackson
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 28
Joined : 2016-04-19
Member Age : 48
Location : Shropshire
Auto-Sleeper : Amethyst
Vehicle Year : 1999

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by Paramedic on Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:12 am

Hi Gordon, your enquiry is most interesting, didn't realise that 12 volt system operated that way. If you were able to illuminate the habitation area whilst driving at night, you will probably need to set up complete blackout curtain(or similar) immediately behind the cab for safety reasons. May be a legal issue if forward vision is impaired due to any distraction caused to the driver from the rear? Regards.

_________________
In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king
avatar
Paramedic
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 663
Joined : 2016-01-27
Member Age : 70
Location : Chichester West Sussex
Auto-Sleeper : Broadway FB
Vehicle Year : 2013

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by gordyjackson on Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:15 am

I do plan to do that with a curtain of some sort,  It was just a revelation driving at night, kids were asleep in the back,  I was up front listening to the archers and not being moaned at!  I think it's the only way to fly!
avatar
gordyjackson
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 28
Joined : 2016-04-19
Member Age : 48
Location : Shropshire
Auto-Sleeper : Amethyst
Vehicle Year : 1999

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by dbroada on Fri Oct 28, 2016 8:35 am

I understand this to be a legal requirement, or at least I have seen that said on here in the past. I haven't looked closely enough at the circuit block diagram to check though.

_________________
Dave
avatar
dbroada
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 1496
Joined : 2015-10-25
Member Age : 63
Location : Surrey
Auto-Sleeper : Nuevo EK (Fiat)
Vehicle Year : 2016

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by brodco on Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:17 am

Hi wave

The habitation electrics are switched off to comply with the automotive EMC regulations because there is a small but real possibility of electrical interference from the habitation area getting into the vehicle electronics.

It’s part of the safety system so it’s really not a good idea to over ride it. You would also invalidate any type approval the vehicle had.

Its been discussed before and you’ll find several threads if you search the forum e.g.:

http://www.autosleeper-ownersforum.com/t16791-habitation-12-volt-system

Here is a recent example of the possible effects of non compliance. The problem was found in the testing stage which shows the importance of EMC testing any vehicle.

tp://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/BART-Crash-Due-to-Electrical-System-Interfering-with-Trains-Brakes-Sources-377204651.html

If you need lights in the back why not consider getting some battery powered lights that aren’t connected to the vehicle electrical system?

Brod
avatar
brodco
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 806
Joined : 2012-07-30
Member Age : 62
Location : Worthing
Auto-Sleeper : Duetto
Vehicle Year : 1997

View user profile http://www.eurotherm.co.uk/en-gb/products/

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by m8form8 on Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:10 pm

Funny I was expecting all the electrics to turn off on our new Benimar, Spanish built but they don't. scratch head
avatar
m8form8
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 1124
Joined : 2015-02-15
Member Age : 59
Location : Brighton
Auto-Sleeper : None
Vehicle Year : Vehicle

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by PLOUGHLIN on Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:47 pm

That's EU Harmonisation for you. hugegrins

_________________
Peter L
avatar
PLOUGHLIN
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 1892
Joined : 2014-06-24
Member Age : 47
Location : NORTH HERTS
Auto-Sleeper : MB Gloucester
Vehicle Year : 2011

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by m8form8 on Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:02 pm

I just hope the brakes don't fail on the Benimar, but so far their seems no problem in the electrics staying on. Not that we drive with lights on in the rear, I had to change some of the things as far to glaring white leds everywhere. The downlighters over the rear bed were too bright, needed sunglasses on to read with them. sudden_idea goneoff I really don't need searchlights in my face in bed. One little touch I do like is the blue leds at floor level so you can find your way around without being blinded by the overhead Ultra brilliant white lighting supplied.
avatar
m8form8
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 1124
Joined : 2015-02-15
Member Age : 59
Location : Brighton
Auto-Sleeper : None
Vehicle Year : Vehicle

View user profile

Back to top Go down

habitation electrics off when ignition on

Post by Radioray on Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:15 pm

gordyjackson wrote:Hi Guys,
 
Did some travelling at night this last week and a few times I would have liked to have been able to have lights on in the rear when we were moving.   Also simple things like the toilet flush etc are all off and the kids were fumbling around in the pitch black!

I guess it's part of the switchover relay that activates power to the fridge whilst shutting off the power to the leisure circuit.
I wondered if there was a simple way of overriding this and I may even set it up with a 'master' switch in the drivers area so that I can switch all the lighting off again when need be?

Any thoughts??

Best Regards
Gordon
The habitation lights on my Executive are controlled by a relay under the drivers seat,  The relay is energised when the ignition is on, should be quite simple to over ride it.  I will go and look at mine and devise a fix.  Probably tomorrow.   regards ray
avatar
Radioray
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 24
Joined : 2011-10-04
Member Age : 78
Location : Nr Lydney Glos
Auto-Sleeper : Executive
Vehicle Year : 2004

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by -mojo- on Wed Nov 02, 2016 2:19 pm

Radioray wrote:
The habitation lights on my Executive are controlled by a relay under the drivers seat,  The relay is energised when the ignition is on, should be quite simple to over ride it.

It varies depending on what make/model of power control system you have, but on some (most?) they use the split charge relay output as a signal to trigger the habitation side EMC shutoff, and if you disable the relay you ~may~ find that your split charging no longer works.
avatar
-mojo-
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 3613
Joined : 2012-08-04
Member Age : 20
Location : Southeast
Auto-Sleeper : Trooper
Vehicle Year : 2006

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by Wargenwolf on Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:49 pm

Previous van would switch off the habitation power to the lights and toilet flush on start up, but not the 12v TV points, which meant the passengers could play DVDs while travelling.

_________________
2005-Bailey Senator Wyoming   2009-Bessacarr E769    2012-Swift Bolero 712FB    2017-Auto-Sleeper Kingham
avatar
Wargenwolf
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 665
Joined : 2015-08-28
Member Age : 55
Location : County Durham
Auto-Sleeper : Kingham
Vehicle Year : 2017

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by nuevoboy on Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:00 pm

Interesting point about the kids asleep in the back....I assume they were in suitably belted seats and not in bed. And I hope they were only using the loo while the 'van's engine was running but the vehicle stationary. scratch head
avatar
nuevoboy
Donator
Donator

Male

Posts : 429
Joined : 2013-02-14
Member Age : 64
Location : Wild West Wales
Auto-Sleeper : None
Vehicle Year : 2005

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by Radioray on Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:23 pm

I have checked the wiring in my Executive and  underneath the drivers seat are two relays, one turns off the fridge when the engine is off and the other turns off the habitation electrics when the engine is on. One of the relays has a thick red wire on terminal 87A, put a link between 87A and 87 (via a switch if required) and the habitation electrics stay on.  I recommend using a switch as the turn off feature is very useful .  This works on my van   whether all executives are the same < I don't know.
regards  Ray
avatar
Radioray
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 24
Joined : 2011-10-04
Member Age : 78
Location : Nr Lydney Glos
Auto-Sleeper : Executive
Vehicle Year : 2004

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by -mojo- on Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:29 pm

Radioray wrote:I have checked the wiring in my Executive and  underneath the drivers seat are two relays, one turns off the fridge when the engine is off and the other turns off the habitation electrics when the engine is on. One of the relays has a thick red wire on terminal 87A, put a link between 87A and 87 (via a switch if required) and the habitation electrics stay on.  I recommend using a switch as the turn off feature is very useful .  This works on my van   whether all executives are the same < I don't know.
regards  Ray

Can you confirm that the leisure battery still charges from the alternator when the engine is running?
avatar
-mojo-
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 3613
Joined : 2012-08-04
Member Age : 20
Location : Southeast
Auto-Sleeper : Trooper
Vehicle Year : 2006

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by Radioray on Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:38 pm

Hi, on my van it appears to connect both batteries in parallel , As long as the vehicle battery is charging it should also charge the leisure battery. I used mine with a switch  to keep the Toilet light on when stopping for a quick visit to the loo.
avatar
Radioray
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 24
Joined : 2011-10-04
Member Age : 78
Location : Nr Lydney Glos
Auto-Sleeper : Executive
Vehicle Year : 2004

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by Radioray on Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:42 pm

Update, on my van when the engine is running both batteries are connected together by the relay. so if you used used my mod and left the habitation on for a long period I could flatten both batteries....
avatar
Radioray
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 24
Joined : 2011-10-04
Member Age : 78
Location : Nr Lydney Glos
Auto-Sleeper : Executive
Vehicle Year : 2004

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by Radioray on Wed Nov 09, 2016 12:44 pm

I should add   'if using the mod with engine stopped it could flatten both batteries'
avatar
Radioray
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 24
Joined : 2011-10-04
Member Age : 78
Location : Nr Lydney Glos
Auto-Sleeper : Executive
Vehicle Year : 2004

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Interior electrics go out when Ignition is on

Post by -mojo- on Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:51 pm

Ah, Ok. Don't forget that this switch and the wiring associated with it will need to be rated to take many tens of amps then, as it could be used when vehicle battery and leisure battery are at very different states of charge. For example if it were to be operated with a charged vehicle battery and a flat leisure battery, I would expect the initial current flow to be very large (maybe 50 Amps? The actual value will be very heavily dependent on the gauge of the existing wiring in the circuit).

The mod probably won't be applicable to any van that has the Sargent all-in-one power supply (typically 2003 onward?), as the more recent design has the switchover relay inside the PSU itself.
avatar
-mojo-
Member
Member

Male

Posts : 3613
Joined : 2012-08-04
Member Age : 20
Location : Southeast
Auto-Sleeper : Trooper
Vehicle Year : 2006

View user profile

Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum