Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

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Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by TrickyWoo on Thu 23 Jun 2016 - 4:52

I know this has probably been covered b4 but I tried a search and having come up with nothing that specifically tackled my problem (perhaps I didn't use right search paramaters?) I thought I'd ask.
The rear of our 92 Talsiman GL on 2.0 Petrol Talbot Express, has become a little too wallowy for my liking. It does seem to have got worse more recently and even when on site now the slightest movement inside by either of us (even the wife laughing heartily!) now makes the rear move when it didn't too noticeably b4(we don't use the rear steadies as have never needed to in the past). The rear leaf springs "frown" slightly rather than "smile", and my gut reaction is they are probably tired and might want replacing. It's up for MOT in next couple of weeks and assuming it passes (not had a problem passing b4) I want to consider best options for curing (assuming I don't have to spend my limited funds on just getting it through the MOT). Bear in mind we like to travel with fresh water tank and loo flush tank as full as poss so we can stop where there are no facilities. Among the options I can think of:-

1. renew the springs.
2. renew with uprated/heavier duty springs
3. install spring assisters of some sort (either air or other after-market helper springs.)
4. have the existing springs re-tempered

Bear in mind I can't do any of these jobs myself so will have to pay labour costs (my usual garage are very good).

My gut reaction is that I need to get the basic set up right and working properly in the first place rather than just fitting spring assisters to my tired old springs but what does anyone on here think? Merits of particular options with particular refernce to cost/benefit (money is most definitely NOT no-object!)? Any advice would be greatfully received.
Thanks

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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by daisy mae on Thu 23 Jun 2016 - 8:18

From past experience. caravans, renew the springs, shouldn`t need air, wasn`t on originally, so why add, not needed when built, surely cheaper and best option replace the springs to how it use to be. just my take on it. heavy duty if you feel better with that, being as new is " improved these days " i.e .not as good.

Good luck.
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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by boxerman on Thu 23 Jun 2016 - 8:32

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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by -mojo- on Thu 23 Jun 2016 - 13:15

Hope you don't mind me suggesting this but, as you don't say... how recently were the dampers last changed? No doubt the old springs will be getting a little tired, but worn out dampers will definitely make the back end feel "wallowy".
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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by NigelS on Thu 23 Jun 2016 - 14:00

This is something that I also had to address with my 1993 Talisman - exactly the same problem with inverted springs. The quick answer is that I went for spring assisters as the shocks were fine and the springs needed help. The down side of the spring assisters is that the standard shocks are realistically not up to the job of controlling bump and rebound with the uprated additional springs so on a very uneven road (ie typical UK A road) the ride can be slightly "bouncy" for want of a better description. They do however control the problem you have mentioned of body roll when parked up.

Why did I not just replace the springs? Because they are like hens teeth, so not really a viable option. If you go down the route of spring assisters, i would also figure in the costs of the uprated dampers (shock absorbers) that are sold by the same company; I intend to replace mine with these, but haven't done so yet (more lack of time as I do all my own work on the van). the company I used is linked from the J K Towers website, but for the avoidance of any doubt was Custom Campers; this is the relevant page http://www.leafspringassister.co.uk/talbots-express-fiat-ducato-citroen/
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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by TrickyWoo on Thu 23 Jun 2016 - 21:55

Thanks for the responses folks. I need to do some more investigation and thinking. MoT first (booked in for early July as due end July  so earliest it could be done to retain current due date) then see what money is left in the kitty for such fripperies as vehicle handling!

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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by Eonod on Sat 2 Jul 2016 - 9:25

The rear suspension on our 93 Talbot used to sag and I grounded it hard a few times, including damaging the exhaust on one occasion.
During our first year of ownership we found the back-end dropped noticeably.
After that we used the rear stays whenever the van was parked up, on campsites, etc.
Not sure if it actually did anything but once we started using the rear stays whenever stopped the back-end didn't seem to be so low.

I did look at getting some leaf spring assister's but didn't follow it up, as we sort of overcame it by using the rear stays all the time.
http://www.leafspringassister.co.uk/talbots-express-fiat-ducato-citroen/
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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by Peter Parkes on Sun 3 Jul 2016 - 10:12

Do not know if this helps but just for information.

Our 1994 Talbot Talisman GL came with Air ride suspension fitted that can be biased to either side. The springs are supported to maintain their intended shape and function.  I run at 30 psi which experience has shown we achieve minimum wallow with comfortable firm ride and handling and although the rear stays had been removed we do not have any problems when parked up.
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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by TrickyWoo on Mon 4 Jul 2016 - 17:45

Well, the van passed the MoT with a few advisories, including mention of both rear springs. Basically they were not a fail but any further deterioration and they would have been. Bear in mind this was with empty tanks, only one gas cylinder, and without food/clothing for hols. 

I've bitten the bullet and ordered some new replacement springs, heavy duty. Due to be fitted later this week. Decided to do it now rather than waiting for them to actually be mot failure, because I'm already not happy with handling now anyway, and if I'm going to fork out an arm and a leg I may as well at least have the benefit of them for our summer hols.

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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by TrickyWoo on Wed 6 Jul 2016 - 17:41

Update. New heavy duty springs fitted today, 4 substantial leaves each side - wow what a difference, the van actually goes round corners now! (think difference between handling of american 1950's-60's boulevard cruiser and handling of typical european car of same era - & no I doh't mean 2CV's).

Just a couple of minus points - it sits somewhat higher at the rear now as expected, so I can no longer see much of the traffic behind through the rear window. And the dragon is now insisting that we get one of those security grab handles fitted by the habitation door to help her get in. May need a higher step!
All things considered, in spite of the eye watering cost I am pleased with the result and can't wait for our hols to give it a good try-out.

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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by rogersrimini on Wed 13 Jul 2016 - 22:59

I had a 94 Talisman new. The back end always wallowed with excessive lean on roundabouts etc.. Eventually I added some Grayston coil springs which solve the problem perfectly. These fit between the axle and the chassis and relpace the rubber bump stops. Quick and easy to fit so labour costs low.
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Re: Rear Suspension on 1992 Talbot Talisman GL

Post by TrickyWoo on Sat 16 Jul 2016 - 3:14

rogersrimini wrote:I had a 94 Talisman new. The back end always wallowed with excessive lean on roundabouts etc.. Eventually I added some Grayston coil springs which solve the problem perfectly. These fit between the axle and the chassis and relpace the rubber bump stops. Quick and easy to fit so labour costs low.
This was considered and had the springs been newer would probably have been the favoured route. But as the springs were old and tired to begin with it was felt that it was a better solution to get the basic set up right before adding any helper springs. I'm happy with the new springs so far - forthcoming trip to Orkney will give them a proper try-out.
Thanks for the responses guys.

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