Oh dear, I have two leaks!

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Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by circa75 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:17 pm

Following a couple of rainy days, I have now discovered two leaks on the recent AS purchase. Cheesed off doesn't come close. I've been getting the van ready to go away on a first short trip this week and a longer trip the following week. But that's on hold now.

There is water ingress on both side window areas behind driver and passenger seats. The drivers side is worse with soaked panels, curtain, upholstery, foam and insulation/timber. I've removed a couple of internal panels to see the extent of what's going on, looks as though it's been happening for a while as the wood is wet/stained - though not rotten. The passenger side isn't as bad and gathers a pool of water on the inner frame around the latch, with a wet/stained curtain.

Having looked at various leak threads here, I suspect the two windows require new seals.

Previous to pickup I told the dealer there was a water leak inside the external gas locker (steel box) as a small pool of water had gathered. To the area directly above that is where the issues are inside and it seems to be seeping down into the locker area. On inspection, holes have been drilled in the locker floor in an attempt to drain it - not my idea of how to solve a leak!


I would not have bought the vehicle if I'd known it was not water tight, and feel somewhat cheated/robbed at the moment. The dealer did not mention it so I presume he didn't know (or maybe I'm being naive) as some of his other vehicles were advertised as having water ingress and the prices reflected it. 

The vehicle comes with '3 months warranty'. I've emailed a detailed explanation along with photos, and asked for a callback to discuss what to do next. Don't think the guy checks email often so will call him tomorrow. I've also included some other niggles that I was putting on hold until after a proper trip - very soft brake pedal amongst them.


What would your advice be in how I approach this? In the email I've stated I would like all problems fixing properly, not by quick fix. Alternatively, part refund and I will get the issues sorted or full refund if neither can be agreed.

Having spent evenings polishing/waxing the whole body, cleaning inside and spending more money on kitting the van out I'm currently very cheesed off and have gained little pleasure from it yet. I'm torn between requesting a full refund as now with the water ingress - this was not the vehicle I thought I'd bought, and the price paid certainly does not reflect the issues.

What would you do?

Thanks.
J

P.S. To top it all off, the 12v cab cigarette lighter doesn't work - it shorts and blows new 20 amp fuses. Great, those new device chargers/adapters I've bought also have zero use right now!
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by boxerman on Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:46 pm

I think that you have done the right thing by contacting the seller, give him a chance to sort it out one way or another. I can well understand you being 'less than pleased' but see what he comes up with.

The gas locker is supposed to have holes in the bottom, to allow leaked gas to escape. The fag lighter can't be much of an issue as there are only two wires to it [three if you count the light].
There may be light at the end of the tunnel Jon smile!

Frank
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by daisy mae on Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:52 pm

So sorry to hear this J does take the shine off things, at the end of the day , you do have some warranty and I would push to get it sorted as soon as, you could say " not fit for purpose", if it has been leaking for some time a damp check should have picked it up, was this check done? if not that is the first rule of thumb when buying a van a damp check is essential.

If you insist nicely and reasonable and not getting annoyed although I would in your shoes, I believe you are more likely to get what you want rather than shouting the odds.

If that is wrong someone will say so.

When I bought my van I had a leak and also a crack where the catches were on the side of the lounge windows, I wasn`t going to buy it in that condition, dealer did fit two new windows and resealed all the rest, under warranty.

Best regards, for a happy outcome and you are able to go on your trips soon, knowing you have a watertight van.
Margaret
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by chrisvesey on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:08 pm

Hi,
Regarding the ciggy lighter some items that you plug in are not compatable due to their design, is it ok with the original ciggy lighter pushed in?
Chris
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by Gromit on Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:24 pm

From what you say you haven't got such a serious problem, although it clearly doesn't seem like that to you just now.

The fag lighter is trivial, and the reason it blows has probably been suggested already.

Assuming the water is coming in through the window seals (can't think it could be anywhere else, but it can travel) they are easy enough to re-seal, and if your dealer is any good at all he will fix it for you without a quibble.

The advice about keeping cool is sound. Give him a fair chance, and use your last weapon last!

Your trips may not even have to be cancelled. It's quite possible your dealer can do a temporary job in about five minutes. A bead of sealant around the frame will be fine for a while, and may even be useful to make certain that is where the water is entering the van.

Dave smile!

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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by circa75 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:50 pm

Thanks Frank/Margaret/Dave, appreciate your level headed opinions. I don't blow up or get (visibly) annoyed easily, but I'm far from pleased. Will call the dealer tomorrow and see what he has to say/offer. Obviously, it will involve taking the vehicle up to them for inspection etc. Another 2-3 hour round trip.

Personally, I'm wet behind the ears when it comes to what to inspect on motorhomes as this is my first. The vehicle apparently had a full PDI check and I was told it was sold to me 'fit for purpose'... Though I doubt it has had a damp check, there is black mould on some of the panels/fabric and surely that would have been spotted.

Is a damp check down to a dealer or a buyer to do?


Chris: the cig lighter blows a fuse as soon as I replace the fuse in the fuse box. I've had the lighter out and fiddled around but no joy, I'm no auto spark so will add it to the list of 'dealer to sort' items!


Dave: I agree, a quick fix may well solve the leaking. I very nearly bought some sealer on Saturday to bead all around the window channels, but had to stop myself due to having bought from a dealer with a small warranty so I wouldn't have to do that.

My preference is to have the job done properly rather than a quick fix. And if that means it takes more time then so be it. But yes, the water may also be travelling...

Is there any chance water could be getting in from the roof; roof bar joints, skylight seals, small repairs or hairline cracks? I've been up there cleaning the roof, and there are a few diy seal/touch up repairs and small cracks, nothing large or major - but it doesn't have to be where water is concerned does it!


Anyway, see what tomorrow brings...

Thanks all.
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by daisy mae on Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:35 am

I have taken a damp meter with me when looking at vans, learnt from having caravans for 35+years, I slipped up in 1989, when buying a second hand caravan, I should have known better, it was riddled with damp, had no choice put to have it rebuilt, worth nothing but scrap otherwise, did do 18,000 miles in it round the continent over a few years, so it paid off, lesson learnt the hard way.

So keep smiling if possible,  a problem is an issue waiting to be sorted which it can be. up!
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by rose49f on Mon Jun 13, 2016 8:35 am

I can imagine how gutted you are. What ever you do don't try and fix anything yourself. You have a warranty and the van is not fit for purpose. Water leaks can be difficult to find. If he is unable to help you I would ask for full refund. Did it have a habitation check before you bought it as that would show up damp on the list. Stay calm and don't lose you temper with the dealer. Good luck and let us know how you get on.
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by Firms on Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:01 pm

Don't panic!

The good news is that you have purchased from a dealer and they are clearly obliged to rectify these issues for you. Understand that it is annoying and a hassle but there will be always be things to attend to on an older van. I tend to buy privately and use the cash saved not buying from a dealer to rectify stuff myself...on my Legend I had to stump up £400 for a complete new exhaust within the first 1000 miles. 

You've paid the dealer a premium to rectify any problems for you and clearly this particular problem should have been picked up on their habitation check which you said they carried out.

I am also guessing that there is an element of self doubt about purchasing your first motorhome in the first place. Having felt the same way initially I can only suggest sticking with it. Get these issues sorted, familarise yourself with everything over a few months and you will find that it was one of the best decisions you have ever made!

Best of Luck

Simon
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by Bagabargin on Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:12 pm

We had same problem last year with our new to us Gatcome, amongst one or two other smaller issues, we had a 6 month warranty and just before the warranty was up the off side window developed a drip , which when emptying the van (it was towards the end of the season ) found a soggy box under the bench seat that side , so was a bigger leak than we thought . But no problem getting the dealer to fix , took the window out and resealed made lovely job of it , so much so we wished we had got them to do the other one ! Probably had to have paid but it looks a right mess compared to the repaired one . Mastic was used befor apparently where as now proper sealant is used . So good luck , I know it seems depressing when your excited with your new purchase, but I'm sure your dealer will put it right . Chin up
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by Lancky on Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:50 pm

daisy mae wrote:I have taken a damp meter with me when looking at vans
Another gadget that we need to purchase?
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by circa75 on Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:17 pm

Thanks for your replies folks, appreciate the positive sentiments.

Development today. I spoke to the dealer who had looked over my email/photos (possibly a bit lengthy on my part, but I believe in details), he said straight away to take it back for repair. He also said he would refund the full amount paid, do the repairs, let me go to view again once done and give me first refusal to buy back.

Is that normal? I can't argue really. Won't go into the conversation we had, each predictably fighting their own corner but his offer seems fair.

I also mentioned a couple of other issues - soft brake pedal, gearbox crunch from 1st to 2nd and poor power. Not small things, but things you don't notice on a 20 minute test drive with so much else to take in. I know a bit about mechanical/VW issues and mentioned possible solutions to fix these, and want things fixing properly.

I don't expect perfection on an 18 year old vehicle, but for the money paid I do want things to be right and I've explained this. To be honest, I have a feeling he would now prefer to resell to another buyer at less screen price and maybe leave the issues as they are. Perhaps not everyone is as fussy or particular as I am on the details.

No doubt when I drop it off we'll talk more.


Despite being disappointed and unsure which route to take right now (have the jobs done and hope nothing else goes wrong or walk away with a refund), I can definitely see the benefits of having bought from a respectable dealer. And I'm glad the water ingress came to light now while on a driveway in suburbia rather than in the Highlands of Scotland!
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by daisy mae on Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:02 pm

Well if it was me in that situation I would think to myself,

1.....Am I happy with  the van?, re  size, layout etc if the problems were sorted, sometimes takes three motorhomes to get the right van, looks right at first but when living in it, it can be a different thing.

2.....Would a different layout suit me better.?

3......Have looked around to see what else is on offer, preferably from a dealer after your experience.

4......What would I feel happiest with, monocoque bodies are great other models are out there with that type of body.

5.....Base vehicle what is my preferred one? that can limit the model of motorhome.

6....Is dealer going to ask a higher price when repairs are done if you can buy it back?

7....Would you be 100% happy if the repairs were done to your satisfaction?

8.....It is a lot of money , so you want to be sure you have chosen wisely for you, and then you will have a van to last with many happy trips and adventures along the way. Any van needs looking after and maintenance no matter what age, although with older vans there may be a few more to deal with.

Good luck with whatever you decide, one way or another, do not let this episode put you off.  happier days are around the corner. allthumbz allthumbz

Best regards,
Margaret
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by rose49f on Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:18 am

Oh dear. Yes. You have a dilemma. Poor you. Do you know anyone who has bought off the dealer before. Did you pay over the odds for the van or was it 'a good buy'. I feel if it was a bargain the dealer knew about the problems. Have a good talk with the dealer and see how you feel then.
Good luck.
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by Paulmold on Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:38 am

When we first went looking at motorhomes about 8 years ago, we went to that dealer as his prices were mainly in the budget we aimed for. To be honest it was hard to find one single van he had that didn't have damp issues or were in a poor state through lack of care by previous owners, so we walked away, upped our budget and bought from Spinney without any problems.

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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by circa75 on Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:33 am

Margaret: great advice there. Thank you. I guess the 'cooling off' period will now allow some time to consider the things you mention.

And yes, that's a good point - the dealer may want more money once the repairs are done. In which case I'll walk away. I've already gone over budget by thousands in an attempt to get a better all round vehicle, though I was reminded in our last conversation that 'this is a 20 year old vehicle at the bottom of the scale in motor homes...' A slight change of pitch from the previous 'these are the pinnacle of motor home manufacturing...'.


I'm almost loathed to start a new vehicle search, as we all know just how time consuming and all encompassing that can be. And I'm far from retired and have other things on my plate too.

The great thing about the Medallion is the space and layout - it works and feels a great setup for me (though I've not had chance to use it for its purpose) - a side table/dinette plus large sofa, with storage/bed above the cab. And with this model being so rare, it's quite sad to consider letting it go having never enjoyed it. I know someone else will come along and snap it up as quickly as I did, perhaps as is for less money, or with jobs done for more.

Having said that, I'd like to view some Clubman's and a Gatcombe that are reasonably local to compare, contrast and check for water ingress!


Had a second opinion on the driving/mechanical issues last night. We both feel the synchromesh on the gearbox needs replacing or overhauling - which is a gearbox out fix. Some people may accept it as being that way in a larger van and take it as is, but when I'm considering doing thousands of miles - I want/expect it to be smooth and pleasant to drive.

On price paid, it wasn't what I'd call a bargain and maybe slightly over priced for the year. It was also described as outstanding condition throughout. If the issues I've raised were non existent or perhaps fixed properly - it would be a price worth paying from a dealer, as the comeback is worth that bit extra. Otherwise, it's value would be at least 5k+ cheaper than what I paid.
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by Gromit on Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:17 am

I can't add much to Margaret's excellent advice, other than to cut to the basics and say what I would do.

Having been offered a "second chance" I would take it. Accept the full refund and find another van (possibly from Spinney if they are that good).

I would always have that little niggle in the back of my mind about both the van and the dealer, so I would grab the chance to start afresh - armed this time with a lot more knowledge, plus a healthy degree of caution.

Good luck.

Dave smile!
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by Lancky on Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:46 am

Gromit wrote:I can't add much to Margaret's excellent advice, other than to cut to the basics and say what I would do.

Having been offered a "second chance" I would take it. Accept the full refund and find another van (possibly from Spinney if they are that good).

I would always have that little niggle in the back of my mind about both the van and the dealer, so I would grab the chance to start afresh - armed this time with a lot more knowledge, plus a healthy degree of caution.

Good luck.

Dave smile!
I would do the same but then I have a thing about damp. We liked Spinney. We went down for the day in our early research days and they were very helpful. We would have liked to have bought from them but they did not a Nuevo ES in our budget. 
It is worth starting over again as it is such an investment and I would be relieved if I was given an exit option....you might find something better that was not on the market at the time you bought and having had your MH you have more of an experienced eye for the next purchase.  Good luck for whatever you decide.
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by daisy mae on Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:09 am

The one I looked at is still for sale, I didn`t go for it as it is too long for me to use as an everyday car. It is a 1999, one owner, all service records, 12 months mot, 26,400 miles on the clock. price is £16, 995 but I feel that you could get it for less than that.

If that is the model you have set your heart on?There does seem to be more Clubmans about at the moment also a Gatcombe, Amethysdt `s etc.

Good luck
Margaret
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by bikeralw on Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:10 am

I would also take the money and walk away for the reasons stated above. Also, in your original posts you had reservations about the size of the Medallion, what with it being your first proper MH. You now have the chance to try something a little smaller and see if it suits you better.
Your experiences have shown that even so called bullet proof vans can have problems. My coach built van is now 12 years old and dry as a bone, and the fact that it's short enough to fit in a standard car parking space is the main attraction for me.
Al.
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by daisy mae on Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:12 am

Lancky wrote:
Gromit wrote:I can't add much to Margaret's excellent advice, other than to cut to the basics and say what I would do.

Having been offered a "second chance" I would take it. Accept the full refund and find another van (possibly from Spinney if they are that good).

I would always have that little niggle in the back of my mind about both the van and the dealer, so I would grab the chance to start afresh - armed this time with a lot more knowledge, plus a healthy degree of caution.

Good luck.

Dave smile!
I would do the same but then I have a thing about damp. We liked Spinney. We went down for the day in our early research days and they were very helpful. We would have liked to have bought from them but they did not a Nuevo ES in our budget. 
It is worth starting over again as it is such an investment and I would be relieved if I was given an exit option....you might find something better that was not on the market at the time you bought and having had your MH you have more of an experienced eye for the next purchase.  Good luck for whatever you decide.

I can vouch for Spinney, I had 12months warranty on my van habitation as well as the base model, I would go back there no hesitation, although it is a four hour round trip for me .
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by Firms on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:14 am

Seems to me that dealer is being very reasonable and fair. Suspect however that this particular vehicle is not for you. 

Chalk down to experience..... but don't give up on the dream!
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by boxerman on Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:32 am

As others have said, the dealer seems to be doing the right thing by you. Take the money and the experience that you've gained and look around. To be honest, if you want to explore the out of the way places 'off the beaten track' then the Medallion is a bit on the big side. Perhaps something like a Talisman might be better? or even smaller?

Frank
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by bikeralw on Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:04 pm

I called here the other day, they have a few AS models in, maybe something in your price range. The only connection I have with them is that they fitted me an awning at a very reasonable price.
http://www.peakleisurevehicles.co.uk/used/
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Re: Oh dear, I have two leaks!

Post by circa75 on Tue Jun 14, 2016 5:37 pm

Hi all, more great replies - thank you, really appreciate your opinions and input.

Bit of a sad day having waved goodbye to the Medallion (for now at least). A good drive up the M6, it drives well once up to speed, it handles well, it's equipped well, it's spacious, it looks better now than when I picked it up (that's what 2 days of polishing does)... But I'm still convinced there are some issues with the gearbox and turbo/power side of things, as well as the water ingress.

The dealer was very reasonable with no attitude and paid a full refund without questions. I mentioned the issues of concern, he says he's going to look at them and get back to me once completed to see if I want to view it again. So I can't complain at the way he seems to handle customer/vehicle problems.

Obviously, I wish these issues hadn't happened at all but it's good they did so soon after buying. And I now suspect that 99% of the motorhomes in my price range - regardless of brand or model - will have a number of issues that need fixing. This much I've learned, as well as a slightly better idea of what to look out for.


I understand those opinions of put it down to experience, walk away, start a new search... Part of me agrees and feels the same, but part of me also wants the Medallion put right because despite its quirks, faults and size - it still grew on me in a short space of time. (Though admittedly, I never got to use it out there in the world of camping and wild camping.)

Time will tell.
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