SatNav

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SatNav

Post by Nicnaen on Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:24 pm

I currently have a TomTom with the 'Camper' maps added. It works fine but in spite of having put in my Nuevo dimensions it takes me on long detours to avoid roads I know are quite adequate for what is a compact motorhome.

I have been looking at the Aguri RV700 DVR. It has some benefits, 7" screen, wireless updates so no need for computer, CC and other campsites.

Before I spend a large amount (£249) I wondered if anyone had any experience of this product - is it simply an expensive way of taking a long diversion a la TomTom?

Thanks for any advice
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Re: SatNav

Post by -mojo- on Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:15 pm

I don't know that product (and in fact have never heard of the company) specifically, but I suspect that the almost insurmountable issue is the quality of the underlying map data, and the fact that all of the major satnav manufacturers rely on map data from just two companies - so the opportunity to interpret the map data differently/better is very limited.

Given that Aguri is probably working with the same basic map data as TomTom and Garmin are, it's hard to see how they can make better decisions about the width and height of road restrictions, despite what their marketing material says.

However, it's a good idea (IMO) to combine satnav and dashcam in one unit - because dashcam footage that incorporates GPS data has status as evidence in court, while footage without, as I understand it, does not.
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Re: SatNav

Post by roli on Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:35 pm

We are on our 3rd sat nav, some better than others.  I am not sure I would replace this one when it starts being problematic for the chief navigator.

Some of our members use the Navmii App on their tablets or mobile phones.   I did have a quick look at it before the Nexus 7 packed up and I deserted Android for the Apple stable. I have not had chance to see if it's available free from Apple.

If any of you are using Navmii on either an iPhone or iPad perhaps you could pass comment.

Any using Navmii do you think it's better or worse than a dedicated 
Sat Nav unit

Another option of course is something like Open Street Maps or Google Maps on a Netbook or Laptop and with this option you could link in APRS tracking

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Re: SatNav

Post by Gromit on Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:37 pm

Mojo is right about the lack of sufficient data in the mapping. No satnav can utilise what isn't there - whatever claims they make!!

I can't see myself ever spending hundreds of pounds on another dedicated satnav. CoPilot Live Western Europe is (IMHO) better that either TomTom or Garmin, and it has to be a bargain at £35 (sometimes cheaper on offer) with lifetime map updates and Live traffic for £8 per year after the first 12 months free.

It works for me!

Dave

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Re: SatNav

Post by Nicnaen on Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:18 pm

ThAnts for the replies. Talking to my tech expert he confirms the different performance is not in the map ( two primary providers) but the quality of traffic information and the routing algorithms. Back to square one the. Thanks again.
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Re: SatNav

Post by Dutto on Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:16 pm

Gromit wrote:........

I can't see myself ever spending hundreds of pounds on another dedicated satnav. .......

Ditto me!!  allthumbz allthumbz

I have learned to live with the two annoying idiosyncrasies of my Garmin which are:

o  Sending me along bumpy and corkscrew like roads with 50mph speed limits (where I can actually only travel at 30mph) on the basis that it will be "quicker" than driving a few extra miles along a a 70mph motorway!

o  Telling me "Not sure whether or not this road is suitable for motorhomes!" only AFTER I have turned on to the road and now have no chance of turning round!

The good news is that I seldom get lost nowadays ... allthumbz

... and this is the man who drove nearly 30 miles in France looking for the 99D on the orders of the Navigator (aka SWMBO) ... Whistle1

... only to find out when I stopped to look at the map that SWMBO had it upside down and I should have been looking for the D66tap_fingers

No kidding. wave wave wave

I love my SatNav  allthumbz allthumbz and SWMBO of course!! broomstick broomstick broomstick

Best regards,
drinksallround

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Re: SatNav

Post by RML on Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:57 pm

The Mk1 satnav has a map on her lap and in my experience the first and last mile are the worst.  All dedicated satnavs work on the principle of avoiding roads where the local authority have a statutory restriction in place which is published amd subsequently included in the mapping software.  BUT, most country roads are not included unless there is a SN on that road so will be included in the mapping calculation and you will be routed there if you selected so in your preferences.  I'm amazed how big France is and how quiet the roads are and also how many I have travelled with grass growing in the middle for the sake of 5 minutes saving on a long drive. Often you don't know you've been on a short cut until you get out the other side and wonder where all the traffic has come from.
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Re: SatNav

Post by Gromit on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:11 am

RML wrote: Often you don't know you've been on a short cut until you get out the other side and wonder where all the traffic has come from.
Rich..
Spot on Rich. Up a goat track and through someone's back yard to save 20 metres!! shrugg

To get round that (mostly!) in France Mrs Gromit has the same route plotted in CoPilot on her tablet. The 10" screen makes it very easy for her to zoom out and check the route over a wider area, as and when necessary - and particularly (as you say) in the last few miles of a journey.

I think all satnavs are the same. They are brilliant on major roads from "A" to nearly "B", but fairly hopeless on local roads. This is obvious when you use the satnav on very local journeys near home where you know the roads very well. We do this at busy periods to get advance warning from the Active Traffic function of notorious local hold-ups, and it's amazing where the satnav tries to send us!!

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Re: SatNav

Post by meanchris on Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:38 am

In my opinion, the only one that was ever any good at intelligent routing was Navigon.

Then Garmin bought and killed it, now it's as stupid as the rest.

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Re: SatNav

Post by Peter Brown on Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:07 am

Nicnaen wrote:I currently have a TomTom with the 'Camper' maps added. It works fine but in spite of having put in my Nuevo dimensions it takes me on long detours to avoid roads I know are quite adequate for what is a compact motorhome.

I have similar but also subscribe to the live traffic data. Yes it can avoid a route that the van could actually navigate, a slight nuisance; but in the three years I've had it I've never found myself in a French market, Bus Station or been faced by the only bridge within 20 miles and finding it too narrow.

All of the above and many more instances have occurred with previous Navman, Garmin, Smartphone that had the standard mapping.

A couple of years ago I was taken on a significant diversion in Germany from a route I knew. I did doubt it but had faith and also the opportunity to eyeball the reason - a short section of road was closed for resurfacing and the satnav route was the best alternative.

The Tomtom system and the mapping it uses are very good although I agree not perfect. Just think twice before spending a lot of money to maybe jump out of the frying pan into the fire.

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Re: SatNav

Post by groundhog on Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:55 am

Lady G hates navigating, we have an old Tomtom GO930T which works absolutely fine. Part of my routine the night before we depart for anywhere is to sit down and do 'pace notes' that either of us can easily follow, not concise but tells you which direction you should be heading, main junctions and towns en route.

Yes, we have spent 45 minutes going in the wrong direction because I did not know there was a 3.5 ton weight limit at the end of the road and amused the natives turning round where a smart car would struggle  - but we are on holiday - if we miss where we are supposed to be going we are sure to end up somewhere else!

Garmin or Tomtom? I sometimes navigate a classic rally car which has Garmin satnav but prefer the Tomtom, each to his/her own I am sure they are equally good.
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Re: SatNav

Post by dbroada on Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:31 am

my Garmin is lucky to still be in my possession (the windscreen is so far away) and I now own a slightly better Tom Tom. I don't have "camper" versions but both mistake "quickest" for "narrowest"  and love sending me down roads that I don't like doing in my Smart.

They do offer many benefits over a map but they could be SO MUCH better with just a slight change. What about a bit of fuzzy logic? Don't send me down a "quicker" route with lots more turns unless it saves me X minutes?

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Re: SatNav

Post by meanchris on Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:54 am

That's where the old Navigon 6 and 7 used to be so useful, the system seemed to use a much more intelligent algorithm to produce the most logical route.

I bought the Garmin owned version of Navigon last year for my smartphone, to replace the old version on a previous phone, and it sent us through the centre of a French city instead of round the ring road, even though 'optimum' route for a lorry was selected. It continued to make illogical choices throughout the trip and we reverted back to the older version while keeping the new one running to compare the two.

We carry the old phone (an HTC HD2) with the older pre Garmin version of Navigon now, and use that as the baseline.

In fact we find Google Maps routing to be as good as anything, and better than most.

Shame.  shrugg

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Re: SatNav

Post by Dutto on Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:15 pm

dbroada wrote:........

They do offer many benefits over a map but they could be SO MUCH better with just a slight change.

..........
Hi there,

I think we are expecting too much from SatNavs!! wave  wave  wave

I have yet to find a map that shows me how wide is a road or how high is a bridge ... scratch head scratch head

... and I definitely haven't seen one that forewarns me of breakdowns, traffic congestion and road works!! lol4 lol4 lol4

When all is said and done, even the worse GPS on the market is better than a "Navigator" ... Whistle1 Whistle1 Whistle1

... if only for the fact that the GPS never says "You idiot!!  You should have turned left there!' ... tap_fingers  tap_fingers  tap_fingers

... instead of "Recalculating." and then "Turn left at the next junction."; like "Mildred" my SatNav!!  allthumbz   allthumbz   allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround


Last edited by Dutto on Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : "junction" not "auction")

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Re: SatNav

Post by daisy mae on Wed Dec 02, 2015 4:43 pm

I have a Tomtom with the traffic and it warns me of congestion like road works,at times has found me a better route to avoid the hold up. it is an old one.
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Re: SatNav

Post by Nicnaen on Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:13 am

Thank you to everyone for feedback. I think I've saved some money and will stick with my 'old' TomTom. Maybe invest in nap reading training for navigator.
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Re: SatNav

Post by Gromit on Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:36 am

Dutto wrote:
Hi there,

I think we are expecting too much from SatNavs!! wave  wave  wave

I have yet to find a map that shows me how wide is a road or how high is a bridge ... scratch head scratch head

I think you forgot the most useful feature of all Ian.

I've yet to find a map that shows you where you are on itself! smile!

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Re: SatNav

Post by steve00136 on Sat Dec 05, 2015 9:54 am

I have used my nokia windows phone for years using the Nokia Here Drive sat nav app that comes free with the phone with full European maps that are downloaded for free and options to avoid unsurfaced or toll roads etc. It also has an optional warning if exceeding the speed limit which is very useful in countries where speed camera warning apps are illegal. Well worth checking out if you already have a windows phone.

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Re: SatNav

Post by roli on Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:08 am

If you want maps that show you where you are look at GoogleAPRS  or APRSI you need to register but they are free

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Re: SatNav

Post by Gromit on Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:00 am

Thanks Roger.

I use CoPilot and am very satisfied with it. My comment was just to indicate how much we take for granted these days. 20 years ago the men in white coats would have come for you if you suggested we would now have mobile phones with all the Apps and other facilities! content

Satnavs are not perfect, but isn't it fairly marvellous that we can have maps of the entire world in a gadget not much bigger than a fag packet, which not only knows where we are, but can tell us how to get to where we want to go!! smile!

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Re: SatNav

Post by Dutto on Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:07 am

Dave,

There is a major downside to GPS when navigating a boat!

For many years I navigated with the accuracy of "we are somewhere near here" as I pointed to an ever widening circle on the chart ...

... then along came GPS with a stated accuracy of ONE METRE!!

Suddenly, there was no excuse for hitting something or missing something and it definitely wasn't idiot proof.

Example:

I decided to sail either to seaward of the Farne Islands if the weather was fine and to landward if there was any sea running.

I set up the automatic steering and the GPS to steer for a "Waypoint" about two miles before reaching the Farne Island, asked my cousin's husband to wake me up when we reached the "Waypoint" and went to bed.

I woke up when the engine stopped and leapt out of bed to see what had happened.

My cousin's husband had fallen asleep and only woken up just in time to stop the boat before we struck.  There in front of the boat, LESS THAN TWO HUNDRED METRES AWAY was the first of the Farne Islands!

It's easy to blame the man because he should NEVER have fallen asleep, BUT I was the IDIOT who set the course to aim for a Waypoint in front of the Farne Islands when I could have aimed the boat at a Waypoint slightly to the east and pointed the boat at Norway instead!!

I loved the "somewhere about here" era!! allthumbz allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround
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Re: SatNav

Post by PLOUGHLIN on Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:30 pm

It is worth remembering when using GPS and marine charts that some charts are still based on surveys done in the 1800s. GPS does occasionally place you on the headland rather than around it. hugegrins look here

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Re: SatNav

Post by Dutto on Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:15 pm

PLOUGHLIN wrote:It is worth remembering when using GPS and marine charts that some charts are still based on surveys done in the 1800s. GPS does occasionally place you on the headland rather than around it.  hugegrins look here

How about the man that got the Lat & Long perfect when he fed in the Waypoint for offshore Santa Cruz in Tenerife ... up!

... set the GPS on Automatic and hit the "Go" button ... up! up!

... but forgot that sailing from the Bahamas the Santa Cruz Waypoint was on the other side of Tenerife!! look here look here look here

Luckily, he noticed that he was virtually surrounded by land when the GPS told him he still had about 20 miles to go! Whistle1 Whistle1 Whistle1

GPS are the same as all computer based tools.  i.e. "Garbage In = Garbage Out"allthumbz allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround
Ian

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