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Post by paul bullock on Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:56 pm

Hi,just come back from a 10 day break in Somerset ,and was about to clean/wash out the shower/toilet , when I switched on the shower head to sluice down, the pump wouldn't switch off as usual ,just kept running! I adjusted the pressure switch until things were back to normal,but the pressure isn't as good as I think it used to be and now the pump no longer "judders" before stopping. Any ideas on what this could be??  Thanks in advance Regards   Paul     scratch head
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Sun Sep 20, 2015 5:23 pm

I had exactly the same problem and if your Nuevo is like mine the pump is inside the water tank. I am in the process of fitting a new Shurflo pump inside the wardrobe where it will be much more accessible.
My pressure gradually reduced so much that the pump ran but no water came out of the taps.
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Post by paul bullock on Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:36 pm

Thanks for your reply, id feared that was the way we were going ! Where in the wardrobe do you think it will go? I have looked underneath and we have an access cap about 4" dia would that be easier? Still think 4Yrs for the life of a pump is unacceptable my previous M/Hs were 8Yrs and 7Yrs with no signs of pump failure and sods law both were easily accessable! Kind regards   Paul
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:46 pm

Hi Paul mine also has a removable cap on the tank but not quite big enough to get your hand in. I understand that to replace the existing submersible pump in the tank the whole tank has to be dropped. Not something I want to do. 
I have screwed my new Shurflo pump to the back wall of the wardrobe just below the Sargent box of tricks. I am just awaiting some stainless jubilee clips before I can get everything connected up.
If you need any more help let me know.
Grant
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Post by paul bullock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:59 am

Many thanks for your reply ,can you tell me ,have you removed the old pump and pressure switch? and which model shurflo have you chosen? Regards  Paul
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:24 pm

Hi Paul
I got the pump and filter from eBay item no. 171025495473.
I have removed the pressure switch in the wardrobe and the existing wires to that need to be joined together.
I have left the existing pump in the tank having disconnected the wires and pulled the wiring back up through the wardrobe floor. I have been advised on the forum that the Shurflo pump should draw the water from the tank through the existing pump assuming the impeller runs freely. If not then I will have to cut the pump off the pipe in the tank but could be difficult- need someone with small hands!!
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Post by paul bullock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 2:25 pm

Again thanks for your reply ,what are you going to use as the 12V supply to the pump? Idid think it would be the the wires going  to pressure switch?       Regards  Paul
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:55 pm

Someone on the forum said you could take the 12v supply from the pressure switch but when I tested both wires to see which one was positive I could not get my 12v testing light to light up. 
I tested the existing wires to the pump and ascertained the live one.
Not sure whether the wires to the pressure switch become live. I just switched on the main power at the Sargent control and also the pump switch. 
I will let you know when and if I get it all running but may be a while as I am having a few days away.
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Post by paul bullock on Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:29 pm

Many thanks again for your valued reply, I haven't got the pump as yet, im still confused with the types of pipe connections ,but with your help Im gradually getting a plan of action together!Hope you have a nice break away,we are off ourselves to St Ives next week, the weather for once looks good! Have a good trip and thanks again for your help. Kind regards       Paul
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Thu Oct 01, 2015 8:06 pm

To Paul & Dave and anyone else wanting to change the pump in the cold water tank for a pump inside as promised I attach some photos of the completed job together with an idiot's guide. 
This was done on a 2011 Nuevo II EK but may well apply to other models.

1. First job is to drain the freshwater tank and hot water tank then raise the van so I used a pair of Milenco Quattro ramps on the front wheels. This gives reasonable access underneath.

2. Make sure the 12V power is off on your control panel and then get 
underneath the freshwater tank with your legs facing the back of the van. This makes it easier to see and at the front of the tank coming from the top you will see a white cable which is from the pump in the tank. This white cable is connected to a pair of single cables encased in black insulation. Where they are joined with male and female spade connectors carefully remove the black insulation then you can 
simply disconnect the pump.
The wires to the pump I just taped these out the way as they are no longer required. Cut the terminals from the wires going towards the rear of the van. Carefully pull the cable back through the cable ties and plastic trunking until you can see it disappear up into the floor at the bottom of the wardrobe.

3. You are now finished underneath. Back inside the van remove the drawer under the wardrobe. Some may just tilt and pull out but on mine you have to remove 3 screws on each side of the drawer and it will come out. Remove the inspection cover inside the wardrobe.
Now if you look at the bottom of the wardrobe floor you will see a jumble of wires going through the floor. There are a few black covered sets of cables but I found that by tugging each set you soon find the pump cable which is loose under the van and pull it all through.

4. Now in my van the positive cable is coloured orange/white and the negative is coloured blue/green but to be safe test it with a 12V bulb tester. You could if you wish try to find the cables without going underneath but it is not easy as there are so many wires.

5. Unscrew the existing pressure switch on the right wardrobe inside wall by unscrewing the 2 screws underneath and then by holding the inside collar on the connectors pull up from the rigid pipe. You can keep the connectors as spares.

6. I screwed the Shurflo pump to the rear wall of the wardrobe as shown in the photo in the upright position. Left side where the filter is is the input from the water tank and the right side is the output to 
the taps. Use 4 1 1/4 X 8 pozi pan head stainless steel screws.

7. Next you need some 1/2 inch ID water quality high pressure flexible tubing.
Fortunately I had an old filling pipe from my previous van. It is nylon 
enforced. You also need 6 stainless steel Jubilee clips 11-16mm, 1/2in-5/8in. Connect the pump input to the rigid pipe that goes straight through the wardrobe floor and connect the pump output to the other rigid pipe which goes to a T connector on the wardrobe floor.

8. Next connect together the 2 blue/green wires which went to the pressure switch. I cut off the existing connectors and used a crimp connector to join them together. Now connect the red positive lead from the new pump to the orange/ white lead from the old pump and connect the black negative wire from the new pump to the blue/green wire from the old pump.

9. Now you can switch the 12V power and pump on briefly just to make sure it is working. The pump can run dry without damage so don't worry.

10. Lastly put some water in your tank-I filled it 50% and then you can switch the pump on and fill in the usual way. It fills a lot quicker with much stronger pressure and shuts off very quickly when the tap is closed. If the pump runs after switching on briefly open and close a tap and it should stop. smile!smile!smile!smile!

11. Forgot to mention that the old submersible pump in the tank remains in place. As it is no longer powered the Shurflo pump is powerful enough to draw the water through the impeller of the old pump. It also makes sure the pickup pipe remains at the bottom of the tank.

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Post by Gromit on Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:13 pm

Brilliant Moggy.

Much appreciated - thanks for an excellent guide.

Dave
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Post by bikeralw on Thu Oct 01, 2015 11:04 pm

Was moving away from Shurflo pumps to submersible pumps done for some kind of improvement or just a plain cost cutting exercise? It seems the latter to me judging by the number of relatively new van owners who have either retro fitted or considering same.
Do AS know about this? A pump shouldn't be considered a consumable item after just a couple of years.
My Shurflo fitted van is 11 years old now and the pump still performs faultlessly.
Al.
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Post by Gromit on Fri Oct 02, 2015 9:30 am

Hi Al

Yes, A/S do know about it.

I have heard a rumour (and it's no more than that, as it didn't come from a reliable or official source) that they intend to stop fitting the caravan type filling system and revert back to a simple diaphragm pump with a Fiamma hole-in-the-wall filler.

Back to the old system in fact, which allows for the use of watering cans and the garden hose.

I've no idea if there's any truth in this, but I wouldn't be surprised. The current system must cost an awful lot more, and it really isn't necessary in a motorhome. The fact that they now fit both systems as standard suggests that they are well aware of the shortcomings of the caravan system.

Please note the emphasised text in bold! smile!

Dave
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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Fri Oct 02, 2015 11:25 am

They could revert to the Truma system, which always works without problems

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Post by paul bullock on Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:50 pm

Hi Moggy,thanks a million! Brilliant, you should be writing manuals or something!! What an excellent piece ,especially with your photos! Weve just got back from Ayr holiday park in St Ives ,really good albeit without a water pump, yes it finally gave up ! No sound or water at all ,just clicks! So it was back to the dim and distant past when we use to go tenting with no taps ! your reply could not have been more timely! Many thanks again     Kind regards   Paul           allthumbz
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Post by paul bullock on Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:22 pm

PS  Moggy just picked up your E mail, youre  a star ! I will let you know how I get on ,but I now have a good chance with your welcome advice! Again many thanks   Kind regards   Paul up!
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Post by roli on Sun Oct 04, 2015 7:19 am

I think Moggys guide was good and will have future use to others so have copied it into the Factsheets Section

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Post by Gromit on Sun Oct 04, 2015 9:27 am

Thanks Roger.

I think you are right. Replacing a submersible if it did go wrong was going to be a big problem, before Moggy became our undisputed "Man of the Year".

Dave
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:15 am

Thanks Roger, Paul and Dave smile!smile!
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Post by chudders on Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:28 pm

This really is a good explanation by Moggy. Thanks. 
I have a Cotswold and would like to carry out a similar conversion. I already have a Shurflo pump that I bought new for a previous van but never used. (Bonus now)
Couple of questions however that someone might be able to help with bearing in mind bits of the system are in different locations to those described above,
My theory.... disconnect the wires going to the pump near the tank and extend from there with new wires. Its difficult to see where the existing wires go. My current pressure switch is in a cupboard under the sink. Can I not then simply extend the pump wires through the floor to that cupboard, remove the pressure switch. Connect the in and out wires of the pressure switch together and connect the new pump to the existing in and out pipes of the existing pressure switch and my new extended wires. Does that make sense and therefore does the shurflo pump have a built in pressure demand switch that enables it to know when a tap is turned on.(I do not have micro switch taps as on some vans) If the above makes sense it sounds relatively easy and as said leave the existing pump in the tank. I suppose in a real emergency it could always be connected as a manual pump to a 12 volt supply.
regards, Dave
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:39 pm

Hi chudders I see no problem in doing what you say but if you get underneath your van it is not too difficult to follow the wires back. I know there is a mass of wires but if you push and pull you will soon find which wire to pull through the various clips and plastic piping A/S have used.
Make sure you fit a Shurflo filter before the input on the pump.
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Post by chudders on Sun Oct 04, 2015 5:54 pm

moggyminor1966 wrote:Hi chudders I see no problem in doing what you say but if you get underneath your van it is not too difficult to follow the wires back. I know there is a mass of wires but if you push and pull you will soon find which wire to pull through the various clips and plastic piping A/S have used.
Make sure you fit a Shurflo filter before the input on the pump.

Thanks for that, when I have got the courage I will give it a go. Mind you if it does not work I can always revert to the existing system. Incidentally I see the shurflo pumps come with different pressures. Any idea which you used and what difference does the pressures make.
Thanks for your help. It really is a good explanation/article.
Dave
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Post by moggyminor1966 on Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:00 pm

Hi chudders
Mine is 30psi which seems to be the norm. I don't really know what difference it makes other than the flow rate. I would not think it is a good idea to have a higher pressure than 30psi as the flow is substantially better than before. 
It would be interesting to know the pressure of the old pump in the tank if anyone has taken one out?
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Post by chudders on Sun Oct 04, 2015 6:26 pm

moggyminor1966 wrote:Hi chudders
Mine is 30psi which seems to be the norm. I don't really know what difference it makes other than the flow rate. I would not think it is a good idea to have a higher pressure than 30psi as the flow is substantially better than before. 
It would be interesting to know the pressure of the old pump in the tank if anyone has taken one out?


Once again thanks alot for the info. The pump I have was a new one for my previous motorhome but never used. I have checked and it is 20 PSI on the label/
Thanks for your advice
Dave
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Post by paul bullock on Fri Oct 23, 2015 1:46 pm

Hi Moggy, the pump is in and is good! I came across a few problems,mainly the wiring into the tank was much more complex,[ I think because of heaters in tank] I had 6 wires entering where you described and to identify them in the bottom of the wardrobe was a nightmare!! I gave up that route and took the supply from the [never used] whale inlet pump which was quite simple ,I added a switch and an extra fuse inline, removed the fuse for pump no 1 which is now redundant ,that was the wiring sorted with me now completely grey on the bits ive got left!!! Fitting the pump was relatively easy ,being attached to the gas locker under the settee,it all works really well ,quieter and with better pressure than when new! Why wasn't this fitted as standard? I  still consider 3.5 Yrs life for a submersible pump pretty unacceptable on a M/H costing £xxxxxs! I will try to add photos but this is a first for me so fingers crossed!  Thanks again for your very welcome help with this    KIND REGARDS    Paul up!
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