Bourton LPG Tank 20L How long will it last?

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Post by lucasg on Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:15 pm

On the Bourton the LPG gas tank takes 20 litres.. How long will that last?

Assume running the fridge all day plus water heating at  1/2 hour per day plus some small scale cooking.

Thanks
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Post by artheytrate on Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:12 pm

We had 7 weeks in Benidorm in May - June used gas for cooking and Bbq, Pat my wife doe's a lot of cooking on the van and in the 7 weeks we used 12 litres of gas.

2 weeks ago we went to a steam rally Thurs - Mon, used Fridge on gas, cooking and heating for 2 evenings we used about 6-7 litres.
We also have the 20 litre tank.

John.
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Post by Gromit on Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:36 pm

Not long, and I'm afraid your tank doesn't hold 20 litres of LPG. That's the total capacity, but filled to 80% it holds only 16 litres of gas.

Part of the "problem" is the Truma Combi 6 heater, assuming your van is fitted with it in order to achieve Grade 3 Insulation. It's a much more powerful heater, and you don't get something for nothing. My (admittedly brief and inconclusive) experience suggests that it will gobble gas considerably faster than the less powerful Combi 4 model. Half as fast again one presumes?

A 16 litre tank is not much bigger than a 6kg Calor bottle after all, since the latter holds just under 12 litres! John used 6 - 7 litres in two days a fortnight ago when it wasn't particularly cold.

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Post by artheytrate on Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:05 pm

Hi Dave I've just looked on the Auto Sleeper website and they state that the 20 litre tank holds 20litres of liquid lpg.

John.
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Post by Claytaa on Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:20 pm

I've never got more than 16 litres in my Bourton from empty.
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Post by roli on Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:52 am

If it says its a 20 ltr tank then its as the others have said it only holds 80% of this, however its says it "Holds 20 litres" then it does.(I would think it was this tank ).
 
I quote from GasIts website.

"20 ltr GAS IT Vapour tank.This Tanks come fully valved with the protective aluminium air box and is 200mm x 717mm in size ( not including the air box ).
These refillable Tanks are the quality 4 hole type as fitted by many OEMS around the UK and Europe. 
 They are 20 ltr water capacity which means they hold 20% less than their listed amount due to automatic 80% float driven shut of filling valve in the tank when filled by Gas, meaning you will never over fill the tank even when only part of the gas has been used - They will alway fill up to 80%

Gromit quite rightly says the 6kg Calor Cylinders Hold just under 12 ltrs ( I recon 23lts for 2 cyls ) so you will be topping up more often ignoring any changes in the fitted gas equipment.

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Post by Gromit on Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:52 am

Hi John

If this is the bit you are reading from the A/S website :- "Hassle free practicality - 20l liquid capacity underfloor LPG Gas Tank" I'm afraid you have misinterpreted what it means.

(I'm also afraid Messrs A/S may be making a misleading statement, since if they have explained the difference between "liquid capacity" and "maximum allowable LPG content" - I have not found it!)

Without crawling under the van with a tape measure, I think Roli is right when he quotes the size of the tank. It does indeed have a liquid capacity of 20 litres (that's how they are measured and designated) but the maximum allowable LPG content will be 16 litres.

One hopes the confusion caused by the A/S website and brochure is not deliberately misleading (I really don't think it is smile! ) but it should be made clearer to potential customers. 16 litres is fairly pathetic, specially now they are fitting a heater like a jet engine!!

Dave

P.S. There is a solution. Ask me after about 6th August and I'll know a lot more.
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Post by Guest on Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:32 am

lucasg wrote:On the Bourton the LPG gas tank takes 20 litres.. How long will that last?

Assume running the fridge all day plus water heating at  1/2 hour per day plus some small scale cooking.

Thanks
Using gas, is it better to heat water as and when you need it, thereby always heating it up from cold, or just leave the heater on all the time?
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Post by Charliefarlie on Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:39 pm

artheytrate wrote:Hi Dave I've just looked on the Auto Sleeper website and they state that the 20 litre tank holds 20litres of liquid lpg.

John.
Assuming the tank is the same as our Kemerton which it should be it will hold 20 litres. It lasts ages !!

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Post by -mojo- on Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:25 pm

candapack wrote:
Using gas, is it better to heat water as and when you need it, thereby always heating it up from cold, or just leave the heater on all the time?

Assuming you are paying for the gas (seems a reasonable assumption) it's always cheaper to heat water as you need it.
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Post by safariboy on Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:52 pm

I think that you will find that A/S fit 25l tanks and call them 20l to allow for the headspace.  That will be 9.86 kg of propane or a little more of the liquid contains some butane.  That is just about 1.5 x the 6kg Calor bottle. 
The heater may be 6kW but it will quickly turn down to 2kW/OFF so it does not make much difference.  As it has an extra vent you get a better heat distribution.
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Post by Guest on Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:25 am

-mojo- wrote:
candapack wrote:
Using gas, is it better to heat water as and when you need it, thereby always heating it up from cold, or just leave the heater on all the time?

Assuming you are paying for the gas (seems a reasonable assumption) it's always cheaper to heat water as you need it.

Thank you. I am indeed paying for the gas, haven't found a way round that yet. smile!
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Post by Peter Brown on Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:59 am

At home or in the van its always cheaper to keep the water warm than to heat it from cold when you want it.

Everybody's use of gas varies but a 20L fixed tank will not keep you on a none electric site in winter (in the UK) for more than a couple of days.

Finding gas filling points in Europe is problematic and when you use aires you will need one - its a shame to have to spend a day of you holiday and fuel to track a filling point down.

Peter #1

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Post by Gromit on Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:18 am

safariboy wrote:I think that you will find that A/S fit 25l tanks and call them 20l to allow for the headspace.  That will be 9.86 kg of propane or a little more of the liquid contains some butane.  That is just about 1.5 x the 6kg Calor bottle. 
Just phoned A/S for clarification, and the above is correct.

They fit the same 25 litre liquid capacity tanks to all their vans, so the LPG capacity is approximately 20 litres.

On their website they say, "Hassle free practicality - 20l liquid capacity underfloor LPG Gas Tank" which is misleading, as that's the usual way to describe the total capacity of the tanks.

Hope this helps, and I'll repeat the link to the handy website for finding LPG filling stations in Europe (and at home) in case someone missed it in another thread.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] The locations can be downloaded as POIs. Very useful.

Dave
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Post by Guest on Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:00 am

Peter Brown wrote:At home or in the van its always cheaper to keep the water warm than to heat it from cold when you want it.

Everybody's use of gas varies but a 20L fixed tank will not keep you on a none electric site in winter (in the UK) for more than a couple of days.

Finding gas filling points in Europe is problematic and when you use aires you will need one - its a shame to have to spend a day of you holiday and fuel to track a filling point down.

Peter #1
That's what I thought, assuming good insulation. Just wasn't sure about the van's insulation.
Separately, I have a single cylinder Gaslow system, an 11kg bottle. I contacted them to check, and they have today confirmed that 21-22 litres is the 80% figure. We didn't use as much as that in total when in France for 7 weeks last year, about half the time we were not on EHU. Of course, the heating was rarely used.
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Post by Claytaa on Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:28 am

I have run down the gas to empty twice, both times it would only take a little over 16 litres, has anyone out there actually put 20 litres into their tank?
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Post by Spospe on Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:40 am

Claytaa wrote:I have run down the gas to empty twice, both times it would only take a little over 16 litres, has anyone out there actually put 20 litres into their tank?


Never run out and the most ever put in was just over 7 litres and at that point the gas level gauge was showing just one out of eight lights!
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Post by artheytrate on Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:44 am

I never run out and I've managed 18 litres when very low.

John.
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Post by -mojo- on Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:42 pm

Peter Brown wrote:At home or in the van its always cheaper to keep the water warm than to heat it from cold when you want it.

Sorry Peter, but that's just wrong. I'd like to put it in another, more tactful way, but I can't - though it is a commonly held misconception!

Which? answered this question recently and their answer was the same as mine - it is cheaper to heat water as you need it.

Here's why:

If you ignore heat losses, you will use exactly the same amount of energy to heat water from cold to hot, as to heat the same quantity of water from cold to warm and then from warm to hot - so no difference there.

However, the reason why it's more expensive to keep it warm is that you get constant energy loss to the environment when keeping it warm. You get no energy losses to the surroundings while it is cold (energy loss by radiation is proportional to the fourth power of the difference in temperature between an object and its surroundings). The hotter you choose to keep it while not in use, the greater your energy losses will be.


Last edited by -mojo- on Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:44 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Words in the wrong order!)
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Post by Claytaa on Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:52 pm

Peter, we have never found gas filling sites problematic, in France they are really easy to find, more difficult in Spain. No idea about Germany will find out in September.
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Post by Gromit on Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:21 pm

Spospe wrote:Never run out and the most ever put in was just over 7 litres and at that point the gas level gauge was showing just one out of eight lights!
A really accurate gauge then!! think_smiley_46

Is your tank set at the correct angle of 105 degrees? Sounds as if it may be installed incorrectly - it wouldn't be the first!!

Dave
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Post by Spospe on Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:42 pm

Gromit wrote:
Spospe wrote:Never run out and the most ever put in was just over 7 litres and at that point the gas level gauge was showing just one out of eight lights!
A really accurate gauge then!! think_smiley_46

Is your tank set at the correct angle of 105 degrees? Sounds as if it may be installed incorrectly - it wouldn't be the first!!

Dave


As far as I can see, the tank is horizontal to the body of the van (2014 Warwick Duo) and at right angles to the direction of travel. 105 degrees sounds very odd (or is this an amusing joke?)
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Post by Spospe on Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:44 pm

Claytaa wrote:Peter, we have never found gas filling sites problematic, in France they are really easy to find, more difficult in Spain. No idea about Germany will find out in September.


In my experience there seem to be more gas filling stations in Germany than France, but you must have the correct adaptor (not the same as the French one).
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Post by Gromit on Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:40 pm

Hi Spospe

You said, "As far as I can see, the tank is horizontal to the body of the van (2014 Warwick Duo) and at right angles to the direction of travel. 105 degrees sounds very odd (or is this an amusing joke?)"

No joke.

This image shows the angle at which the valve box should "droop". The tank has been photographed at the same angle as when fitted. The feet would be bolted to the underside of the van floor. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

There's a description with this gadget which explains in greater detail. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Your tank may need to be rotated to the correct angle. You should be able to see if it's more or less correct by looking at the position of the valve box, as explained in the second link.

Dave
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Post by Maasai Warrior on Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:34 pm

Around March this year we took our Broadway back to AS as we had a gas leak coming from the around the LPG tank. When we arrived at  AS and met Mark, he quickly had a look underneath at the tank and immediately declared the factory had fitted the tank at the wrong angle, the internal float would give a wrong reading on the gauge! Both problems have been sorted thanks once again to Mark and his team. Quality control issues in the factory again!!!

Pete
P.S. Perhaps we should all club together and buy AS a GAS IT fitting helper - Correct Angle Gauge:hugegrins:


Last edited by Masai Warrior on Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Forgotten to add!!)
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