Am I just dreaming? I think so!

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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by m8form8 on Sat May 09, 2015 9:05 am

I think UKIP is a worrying factor,it did very well but only returned one MP for Clacton and whatever you say about his views, he is my mothers local MP and I know he is a diligent worker as an MP. 
I think what was very unfair was the amount of press and media coverage of UKIP in comparison to other minority parties. Their supporters have shown their ignorance in the tweets sent to JK Rowling and the level of education in most UKIP voters is low. I think you are dreaming if you think this lot will just go away Dutto! It rather depends if they find a charismatic leader, Farage was one who did try very hard to be a voice of people who are the far right bullies and blame the Eurozone. Actually with the media support he gained he did an incredible job of being almost plausible. I hope history teaches us that any charismatic leadership based upon hatred is wrong, but that is only a hope and I worry about right or left wings producing something extreme it could happen. What is worrying is the increase of a sizable number of uneducated teenagers leaving school these days who play the blame game as that is all they have learnt.  confused3 confused3 confused3 How many will seize upon some charismatic leader with questionable motives and drive them to power?
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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by daisy mae on Sat May 09, 2015 9:13 am

I think Nigel will be back, certainly made a big difference this turn round, this country needed to be shaken up.
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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by Jaytee on Sat May 09, 2015 9:21 am

M8form8; it would be interesting if you could advise where you get the statistic that 'the level of education in most UKIP voters is low'? 

I will now join Groundhog in the bunker hugegrins

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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by m8form8 on Sat May 09, 2015 9:41 am

Jaytee wrote:M8form8; it would be interesting if you could advise where you get the statistic that 'the level of education in most UKIP voters is low'? 

I will now join Groundhog in the bunker hugegrins
 
OK I own up and I am using mainly my own observations. I don't have statistical data, oh_blast! but I did sadly go to school with some of the now avid Clacton party members. My mother still lives up there and I do know who they are I happened to be there recently when they were canvasing her door. Perhaps they did not expect an OAP block of flats to need someone educated to answer questions. I could not help playing devils advocate and asking difficult ones. It certainly went over the head of the one I asked a few too. He came back later with his leader and he was not able to answer instead trying to deal with local issues only. He made copious notes however and did say he would get some answers but they never arrived. I don't expect he could spell, or read his own handwriting bless him. Heads quickly to the bunker in the Green oasis! broomstick    thanksverymuch
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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by Dutto on Sat May 09, 2015 10:28 am

daisy mae wrote:I think Nigel will be back, certainly made a big difference this turn round, this country needed to be shaken up.
Hi there,

Here are three three extracts to consider ....

"(he) .... traveled the country delivering dozens of major speeches, attending meetings, shaking hands, signing autographs,
posing for pictures, and even kissing babies."

"He gave them heaps of vague promises while avoiding the details. He used simple catchphrases,
repeated over and over."

"His campaign appearances were carefully staged events. Audiences were always kept waiting,
deliberately letting the tension increase,"

Sound familiar?  They should do because Nigel learned his tricks from a master of the trade; even using the same techniques to name his Party the "United Kingdom Independence Party" just like ....

"The name of the Nazi Party itself was deliberately all inclusive – the National Socialist German Workers' Party."

Now compare ....

".... end payment of war reparations to the Allies; tear up the treaty of Versailles; stamp out corruption;
keep down Marxism; and deal harshly with the Jews."

with Nigel's vague promises of ....

"....  tear up the Maastricht and Shengen agreements, leave the EU,
stop the left-wing "benefits" culture in the UK and prevent immigrants from coming to Britain."

Sorry folks but Nigel and his little gang are preying on your fears just like his predecessor.  Check out the following ....

"On election day September 14, 1930, the Nazis received 6,371,000 votes – over eighteen percent of the total
– and were thus entitled to 107 seats in the German Reichstag.
It was a stunning victory for Hitler.
Overnight, the Nazi Party went from the smallest to the second largest political party in Germany."

Oh, the benefits of Proportional Representation eh?  With just 18% of the votes and a bunch of bully boys Hitler managed to take over Germany and within three years the German Democratic Republic had become a dictatorship run by one man.

I sincerely hope that the UK public consign UKIP to the scrapheap before Nigel and his little bunch of cronies can do any damage. allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround


Reference

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/elect.htm

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/dictator.htm

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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by Jaytee on Sat May 09, 2015 10:31 am

Jaytee wrote:
andygump wrote:Hi 

Why can  left wingers, not have an opposing view or opinion without hating anyone who disagrees with them.   It seems that the loudmouths and bullies, reign in this Country of ours, and none more so, as on this forum.

Andy
I think all comments on here are lighthearted and meant with humour Andy, mine certainly are. I don't think any of worry who is voting for who on the forum as even though we have lost the freedom of speech in this Country we are still a Democracy (just)  allthumbz

Blimey, after Dutto's last post I think I am beginning to agree with you Andy hugegrins

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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by daisy mae on Sat May 09, 2015 11:08 am

Dutto wrote:
daisy mae wrote:I think Nigel will be back, certainly made a big difference this turn round, this country needed to be shaken up.
Hi there,

Here are three three extracts to consider ....

"(he) .... traveled the country delivering dozens of major speeches, attending meetings, shaking hands, signing autographs,
posing for pictures, and even kissing babies."

"He gave them heaps of vague promises while avoiding the details. He used simple catchphrases,
repeated over and over."

"His campaign appearances were carefully staged events. Audiences were always kept waiting,
deliberately letting the tension increase,"

Sound familiar?  They should do because Nigel learned his tricks from a master of the trade; even using the same techniques to name his Party the "United Kingdom Independence Party" just like ....

"The name of the Nazi Party itself was deliberately all inclusive – the National Socialist German Workers' Party."

Now compare ....

".... end payment of war reparations to the Allies; tear up the treaty of Versailles; stamp out corruption;
keep down Marxism; and deal harshly with the Jews."

with Nigel's vague promises of ....

"....  tear up the Maastricht and Shengen agreements, leave the EU,
stop the left-wing "benefits" culture in the UK and prevent immigrants from coming to Britain."

Sorry folks but Nigel and his little gang are preying on your fears just like his predecessor.  Check out the following ....

"On election day September 14, 1930, the Nazis received 6,371,000 votes – over eighteen percent of the total
– and were thus entitled to 107 seats in the German Reichstag.
It was a stunning victory for Hitler.
Overnight, the Nazi Party went from the smallest to the second largest political party in Germany."

Oh, the benefits of Proportional Representation eh?  With just 18% of the votes and a bunch of bully boys Hitler managed to take over Germany and within three years the German Democratic Republic had become a dictatorship run by one man.

I sincerely hope that the UK public consign UKIP to the scrapheap before Nigel and his little bunch of cronies can do any damage. allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround


Reference

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/elect.htm

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/dictator.htm
Sorry Ian I agree with UKip , we do not have all the same views then again it is every ones right to have their own which I respect. Labour has always brought the country down and created debt, then others have the s.......to clear  up.

Just because some of you are against UK please do not label the voters as thick and of low intellect, after all you wouldn`t like it if others said the same about your  party voters, that is not nice and totally unwarranted. Think how saying that view makes you look to others. nasty.
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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by PLOUGHLIN on Sat May 09, 2015 12:01 pm

UKIP now having won one seat at a GE, and polled >150k votes are entitled to receive Public funding from The Policy Development Fund and from Short Money. This gives them over £2.5M over the next 5 years. May help them to stay the course to the next GE.

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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by Dutto on Sat May 09, 2015 12:03 pm

daisy mae wrote:

.........
Just because some of you are against UK please do not label the voters as thick and of low intellect, ..........
Hi there,

I have NEVER labelled ANY person OR group of people as "thick and of low intellect" so I will accept an apology would you care to make one. tap_fingers

However, I HAVE pointed out that a vast number of people in the UK seem to be ill-informed.  I HAVE attempted to rectify that situation with referenced information rather than personal opinion.

Here's a good example.  In your Post you state ....

"Labour has always brought the country down and created debt, ...." 

Really?  scratch head scratch head scratch head 

In 2010 the National Debt stood at ....

£0.76 trillion

.... whereas the UK Treasury Estimate for 2015 is ....

£1.36 trillion

So after five years of "austerity" and five years of blaming Labour the UK National debt has ....

RISEN by nearly 79%

.... under a Conservative and Liberal Democrat Coalition government.

Here is the reference so that you can check the source of my information ....

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html

If you can find another source that gives different figures please let me know.

Best regards,
drinksallround

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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by jollywalker on Sat May 09, 2015 12:07 pm

re UKIP, if David Cameron can get us a better deal with Europe, and a referendum to stay in with the better deal, then I don't see any point in UKIP, what would they offer?

For me David Cameron has a very strong position to negotiate in Europe, and can build on that to encourage a vote to stay in. Clever politics, as with UKIP gone, that would suggest voters returning to Conservatives, possibly more so than Labour. A win win all round.
up!
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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by daisy mae on Sat May 09, 2015 1:06 pm

Dutto wrote:
daisy mae wrote:

.........
Just because some of you are against UK please do not label the voters as thick and of low intellect, ..........
Hi there,

I have NEVER labelled ANY person OR group of people as "thick and of low intellect" so I will accept an apology would you care to make one. tap_fingers

However, I HAVE pointed out that a vast number of people in the UK seem to be ill-informed.  I HAVE attempted to rectify that situation with referenced information rather than personal opinion.

Here's a good example.  In your Post you state ....

"Labour has always brought the country down and created debt, ...." 

Really?  scratch head scratch head scratch head 

In 2010 the National Debt stood at ....

£0.76 trillion

.... whereas the UK Treasury Estimate for 2015 is ....

£1.36 trillion

So after five years of "austerity" and five years of blaming Labour the UK National debt has ....

RISEN by nearly 79%

.... under a Conservative and Liberal Democrat Coalition government.

Here is the reference so that you can check the source of my information ....

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html

If you can find another source that gives different figures please let me know.

Best regards,
drinksallround
I wasn`t referring to you Ian but seems you have assumed that, so I will apologise to you even though it wasn`t aimed at you, without going all through the threads off hand I cannot name him.

Kind regards,
Margaret

 Have found it m8form8  said the level of education in UKIP voters is low.


Last edited by daisy mae on Sat May 09, 2015 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : last sentence.)
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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by Dutto on Sat May 09, 2015 1:31 pm

Margaret,

Many thanks. up!

I presumed that was the situation.  We may agree to differ on many subjects but we always try to stay polite! wave wave

Best regards,
drinksallround
Ian

WOW!  Typing that last bit just brought back a "when I was at work" memory!!

On one job my efforts at politeness earned me the nickname of "The Smiling Assassin" .... scratch head scratch head

.... and what makes it stick in my memory is that I can't remember smiling all that often. Whistle1 Whistle1

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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by m8form8 on Sat May 09, 2015 4:39 pm

Margaret, being unaware because of a lack of education is not the same as saying someone is thick and stupid, in my book. If no one has told you or not fully explained things to someone then that does not result in someone being stupid, but it does mean that that person is not educated in matters. When it comes to running a country and standing for a political persuasion I feel it is important to understand what you are asking others to vote for.     

However I apologize if that has caused offence to you or any others.
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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by Jaytee on Sat May 09, 2015 6:58 pm

You did use the word 'voters' m8form8 but let's move on up!

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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by m8form8 on Sat May 09, 2015 7:34 pm

Yes fair enough. Interestingly however it seems YouGov has this to say about it ..
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/02/24/where-ukip-gets-its-support/
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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by Dutto on Sun May 10, 2015 10:33 am

Hi there,

This Thread has probably run its course so I thought I would ruminate on my original "dreams" and see how they stack up against reality.

So here goes ....

"How about this for a few possible outcomes IF no political party has an overall majority next Friday morning?"

I'm not sure whether having a majority political party in full control is a good thing or not.  It hasn't taken very long for the winners to start showing their arrogance and the losers to start complaining about the system that stopped them winning.  Personally I think we may have missed a chance at getting a fairer government.

SNP supports Labour on NHS financing, education and an increased minimum wage.

At the moment the SNP will still support better funding for the NHS, education and an increased minimum wage because they have already declared that they want an end to "austerity" measures that punish the poor and favour the rich.  Unfortunately, their input in England, Wales and Northern Ireland will be nullified by the majority party so they may very well use the subject to call for a second Independence Referendum.

"Conservatives support Labour to retain our nuclear deterrent."

The government won't need to support of anyone to carry on with their current policy; but it may provide a reason for the SNP to call for a second Independence Referendum on the basis that the Scots don't want it in their backyard!

"Conservatives support Labour to limit immigration."

Again, the government won't need to support anyone to carry on with their current policy; but in this case we can only hope that they are a lot more successful than they have been in the last five years!

"Labour supports the SNP to stop tax dodging."
and
"Conservatives support Labour to keep taxes down."

Oh dear!  The tax dodgers helped fund the current government so that one is probably a dream too far and the reason the rich supported them was to make sure that their taxes stayed as near nil as possible.  There will be the usual tub-thumping and promises from the government but the rich will get richer regardless and living in the UK but keeping your money somewhere else to avoid taxes will still be the norm.

"SNP supports Labour to limit utility company profits."

Yeah, and turkeys will start voting for Christmas.  Another dream too far as the party in government is the one that originally sold all the nationalised utility companies to their friends; who made vast profits by selling their shares on to foreign investors.  Yet again, the SNP will be unable to stop the onward march of the utility companies in the UK as a whole so yet again foiled in their bid to end "austerity" measures that punish the poor they may use it as a reason for a second Independence Referendum.

"Labour supports the Greens to ensure that we protect our environment."

Ah, the poor Greens.  I have left this dream until last because the Greens are the political party that is trying to get us all to realise that we are slowly poisoning the planet that we need to keep pure if we are to survive as a species.  The average human being seems to have an inbuilt desire for self-gratification and is heedless of the concept of "tomorrow" never mind "in a hundred years" so I despair that the Greens will ever get the majority of my fellow humans to heed their warnings.

"I could go on with the dream that ALL UK political parties will actually work FOR the British public
 instead of their own vested interests ....

.... but like all dreams I suppose it will come to an end when I wake up on Friday morning."

It did .... tap_fingers tap_fingers

.... but how about that PS eh? lol4 lol4 lol4

"I haven't mentioned the Liberal Democrats or UKIP
because I sincerely hope that they are both totally irrelevant by Friday morning."

I have to admit that the fulfilment of that particular "hope" gave me a warm feeling of joy!!!! allthumbz  allthumbz  allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround
Ian

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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by Dutto on Thu May 14, 2015 9:19 am

lol4   lol4   lol4   lol4

Nigel Farage has become a ....

"snarling, thin skinned and aggressive" man
who is turning Ukip into a "personality cult".


.... according to Patrick O'Flynn who was the Campaign Manager for UKIP in the election.

The meltdown begins, but unlike the cartoon film "Ice Age" I don''t expect there will be many sequels. allthumbz allthumbz allthumbz

Best regards,
drinksallround


Reference ???

Almost every News outlet in the UK!

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Re: Am I just dreaming? I think so!

Post by oldfred on Thu May 14, 2015 9:28 am

Come on now Ian. Nigel is no more of a personality cult than Benito.
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