Engine identification and ignition problems

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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by mikethebike on Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:47 pm

Hi I am going from memory without a manual .I still suspect the unknown distributor cap.
So!) 1) I suggest new correct distributor cap.
2) points at 12 thou.
3)Reduce spark plug gap to 20 thou.
4) cannot think 2 coils would go at once ( no moving parts)
So it could be arcing from the HT side.
A old trick was to look at night to see if you could see any action as regards shorts.
Of course if you have book figures for these gaps use them.

Hope this helps.
Wish I was there to help.

Regards

Micky
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by dandywarhol on Tue Nov 25, 2014 9:55 pm

7 volts at coil suggests to me the original coil + feed is ballasted, possibly in the wire itself, although hotwiring it to a known coil should eliminate that area as you have tried.

From my dying memory cells, the Ducellier contact points had a 15 thou gap

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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by boxerman on Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:45 pm

Hi Mick, we've been away and I've only just picked this up.
loosecoverqueen wrote:Hi, I'm Mick, husband to Judy. Thankyou everyone for all the advice and suggestions. I've been working my way through them.

Put an old vw coil on no improvement. Both coils have 3 ohm primary resistance so i think they are12V coils not requiring a ballast resistor.
Volts across coil  less than 7v so hotwired + to battery positive.
 Volts at coil still only 10V so hardwired points contact to coil negative now get 12V.
The spark is much better. Get visible spark on spare spark plug
Bear in mind that although its sparking in the open air, it might not be sparking in the cylinder. Have you checked the plugs?
  {I guess that the two unknown switches and old wiring put resistance into the leads reducing the coil volts and spark energy.}
Still the engine would not fire.

Next day jumped the van from another car.
Would not start
sprayed  some cold start aerosol into carb and engine kicks occasionaly but does not fire up.

Tried again the next day with similar results
spark on a spare plug seems intermittent again, still hot-wired.
sprayed wd40 on leads
no change
Judy pointed out there is no smell of petrol from the carb and sounds "dry".
Rechecked the fuel line - petrol comes out when engine turned
but maybe not getting into mixture?
Remove the air filter hose and operate the throttle whilst looking down the carb [choke off]. You should see a stream of fuel from the accelerator pump nozzle. If not, there's a blockage or no fuel in the carb.

To do next
Will backtrack
Refit original coil
reduce points gap
confirm spark is still there
try cold start spray
Refit the orig coil but hotwire it, set points at around 15 thou until you get it running then set them using a dwell meter. Don't let it get addicted to easystart.

Look At carb ?
Is it Solex or Zenith? the Solex's are a bit odd.
EDIT: Just had a closer look at your photos - it's a Zenith innit?

Frank
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by loosecoverqueen on Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:07 pm

New spark plugs and rotor arm installed. Still hotwired to VW coil. Points gap @ 18thou. Now reliably fires on "coldstart" but no smell of petrol and no sign of petrol when throttle pumped.
Now to attack the carb!
Why is nother ever straightforward with old wagons - it seems there have been 2 problems from the start. I've spent too many hours under old VW campers and should know better!
I remember now why we have a modern car!
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by mikethebike on Sun Nov 30, 2014 2:30 pm

Yes this is the way it goes.Usually more than one fault to come to a stop. confused3
Other systems were maybe marginal just waiting for a good drive for them to fail. shrugg

Looks like you are nearly there.

Micky
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by boxerman on Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:11 pm

I suspect it was a fuel problem which stopped you in the first place.
Before you strip anything down, give the float chamber a couple of sharp raps with a screwdriver handle, could be a stuck float.
Be interested to know how you get on.
Frank
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by -mojo- on Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:44 pm

As I've recounted here before, the one thing that stopped me dead in my Trafic-based Rapport was carb failure. Frank and I have discussed it in a previous thread, and I'm pretty certain it was a hairline crack somewhere internally that stopped it functioning. I removed it, cleaned it and reset the float levels and put it back, and then used a rebuild kit on it and put it back, and then took it to a garage for them to have a go at, but it never ran properly with that carb again - it simply would not idle. I sourced a brand new replacement (from Italy, IIRC) and the van ran immediately that was installed - and kept running fine until I sold the van.

I should add though that this was with the bigger 1725 (?) engine, and the carb was niether Solex nor Zenith, but a copy make (fitted by Renault from new as I understand it), the name of which escapes me at the moment.
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Bit off topic

Post by boxerman on Sun Nov 30, 2014 4:07 pm

I was in touch with a guy a little while ago who supplies Weber 34 ICH's for the Trafics, he recommends the 25mm venturi size for the 1400 and 27 for the 1647 and 1721.
Micks carb is (should be) the Zenith 32IF7 rather than the Solex fitted to the larger engines.
Perhaps not the issue here but its worth bearing in mind?

Frank
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by loosecoverqueen on Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:10 am

Hi all,
Thankyou for all the helpful suggestions and references.
The next stage is definitely to look at the carb and see if it can be opened up from the top or if the cooling system has to be disconnected and the whole thing removed as the manuals say.
Unfortunately we have to put the van on hold while the bathroom is sorted out  but we will be back with progress reports as and when.
Judy.
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by boxerman on Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:53 pm

loosecoverqueen wrote:Hi all,
Thankyou for all the helpful suggestions and references.
The next stage is definitely to look at the carb and see if it can be opened up from the top or if the cooling system has to be disconnected and the whole thing removed as the manuals say.
Just clamp the coolant pipes off with brake hose clamps
Unfortunately we have to put the van on hold while the bathroom is sorted out  but we will be back with progress reports as and when.
Judy.
We'll be waiting up!

Frank
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by -mojo- on Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:13 pm

loosecoverqueen wrote:
The next stage is definitely to look at the carb and see if it can be opened up from the top or if the cooling system has to be disconnected and the whole thing removed as the manuals say.

Trying to work on a carb in situ is really not recommended - you need to see exactly what you are doing, close up. Measuring the float clearance, for example, would be extremely difficult. As Frank says, clamp the hoses, or take the opportunity to flush the coolant system and refill with new antifreeze mix.
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by loosecoverqueen on Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:13 pm

Hi everyone - we are back! Our wagon is still on the roadside but Mick has now eliminated the hoses, the fuel pump and filter and the coil/ignition. Sadly the coil has overheated (combo of hot-wiring and running it with my car connected up) Next to check the coil for damage - we have a spare - but it really does start to look like the carb. He's checked out (and fixed or replaced) everything else he can think of. Once the temperature is above zero he'll have another go.
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by dandywarhol on Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:14 pm

If the ignition is left on/hot wired and the contact breakers are closed the coil will burn out in a short period of time (half an hour)

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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by loosecoverqueen on Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:31 pm

We're back here again at long last.
On taking apart the carb so far the float valve has come unscrewed and the accelerator pump jet was blocked. Having sorted these 2 faults Mick's blown through the other jets with an airline too (not too powerful from our own compressor). Now to reassemble and try it out but it's anyone's guess what else may have shaken loose in it on the way home from Liverpool. Wish us luck!
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by Vaibhav on Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:52 am

This extract off the RTMR website may help identify engine..
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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by Paulmold on Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:25 am

Vaibhav wrote:This extract off the RTMR website may help identify engine..
No extract showing. This thread is from 2015. Do you have an Auto-sleeper in India?

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Re: Engine identification and ignition problems

Post by -mojo- on Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:13 pm

According to his profile, he has a Renault Kwid - perhaps A/S India have started to use the Kwid as a base vehicle.

Someone with a nasty suspicious mind might think that he was testing to see if newcomers are allowed to post links, but I'm sure that can't be true...
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