Worcester Habitation door handle broken

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Worcester Habitation door handle broken Empty Worcester Habitation door handle broken

Post by hblewett on Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:05 pm

The external door handle on our habitation door now hangs limply in the 'out' position, and does not work at all.  The internal door handle continues to operate effectivel, though it does not feel quite right, being a little less 'positive' than than before.  Any help/ advise on rectifying the problem, in particular 


  •  how to get access to it without messing up the internal door trim would be appreciated
  • where to obtain any parts which may be required
  • anything else which is useful to know to fix it  confused3 


would be much appreciated
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Worcester Habitation door handle broken Empty Re: Worcester Habitation door handle broken

Post by inspiredron on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:13 am

I was concerned about the external habitation door handle on my Lancashire while in Spain a few weeks ago as it appeared to pull lopsided so I removed the door panel to inspect it. I then decided that further dismantling would need to be done at home. 
To access the hsndle do the following. 
Remove the fixing screw blanking plugs from each end of the large pull handle and also the one in the recess of the opening handle.
Then remove the 3 screws exposed. 
The darker brown panel is now only held by a number of plastic clips around its curved periphery.  There are none on the edge of the door.  To remove these  clips slide a flat bladed tool eg a firm pallette knife under the edge of the panel and gently lever up until the clip pops out. There are about 10 of them as I recall. The panel can now be lifted away but is still held by a cable joining the internal handle pull to the lock mechanism.  To get at the external handle linkage it looks as though you need to undo some screws on a silver metal box, fastened to the door itself and which appears to house all the lock mechanism. That was the point where I decided to abort any attempt at further investigation while in Spain. Now we are home I do need to revisit this but it will prbsbly need to wait a week or two.
I hope that helps.  When I get back to it I will post again. If you try it then please post what you find and do.


Last edited by inspiredron on Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typos)

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Worcester Habitation door handle broken Empty Re: Worcester Habitation door handle broken

Post by inspiredron on Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:56 pm

Right - I fixed mine this afternoon. But it was a bit of luck that I found the right screws to undo.
When you have got to the stage of having removed the darker brown panel release the actuator rod from the internal handle. There is a small retaining clip and then the rod can be slipped out. Be craeful not to break the retainer as you unclip it (and even more careful as you reassemble later - it is quite dificult to get the angle right.
Now you can see the silver plate with all the workings of the lock including the actuator for the central locking.
At the bottom of the panel you will see four self tapping screws with countersunk heads and washers underneath. Remove these screws noting that the bottom two are longer than the top two. (Do not undo the similar screws without washers around the periphery of the lock mechanism).  Those 4 screws will release the bottom of the outside handle but the top is still fastened by 4 very long screws which are in a rectangle in the middle of of the main rectangular silver plate. Two of these screws (nearest the door edge) are quite difficult to get at - one is right behind the coils of a spring but can be accessed through the coil. The other can only be accessed by lifting a slotted part of the white nylon mechanism. The two right hand screws are easier, one is accessed through a hole in a metal part and the other is in the clear.  All 4 are round headed posidriv screws.
Once all 8 screws are removed the outer handle is free and can be removed, taking care to note the position of the sealing rubber.
The pull handle is attached to the backplate by a small brass pin.  My problem was that the pin had partly come out.
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I hope the photos are useful - they were taken very quickly because it was raining as I was reassembling.
Reassembly is the reverse to taking it apart.  
I cannot see how your handle has gor totally floppy unless it is pivoted at the top with the lock cylinder at the bottom. Mine gas the key at the top.
Well - I do hope that this helps you to sort your problem. It may be that your lock is nothing like mine of course!


Last edited by inspiredron on Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:04 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Photos were sideways)

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Post by hblewett on Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:40 pm

Thanks Ron - that's very helpful; glad you got it fixed allthumbz .  

The first thing is that it certainly looks like the internal door panel is the same as mine, and as I could only see the three possible points to start dismantling - you're posts have confimed that this is the way into the door lock mechanism.

I hope I'll get on to it later this week - the weather is supposed to be good and I should finally have a bit of time to look at it.
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Post by skyrakes on Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:08 pm

Hi
I was having the same problem and took it back to the dealers, twice in 2 months. The 2nd time they put a dab of glue  on the pin. Now all OK
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Post by hblewett on Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:53 pm

I got mine fixed this afternoon - no problems thanks to your helpful information.   thanksverymuch 
My problem was exactly the same as both of yours.

I also used a spot of loctiite on the pin, so hopefully it won't recur

I am sure that we caused the problem ourselves - the door stay is pretty useless, and on the Worcester the door doesn't fold right back to the body to allow a 'clip-in' fixing, the rear wheelarch being 'in the way'.  So we had taken to securing the door open (taking full advantage of the good weather!) with a small bungie hooked round the door handle - obviously not a good idea!  We find that we can achieve the same effect by inserting one end into the recess in the edge of the door, so that's what we'll do from now on.
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Post by inspiredron on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:31 pm

I am very pleased that you managed to sort it. I wish that I had put some loctite on my pin! At least I know how to get at it next time. But I have put Loctite on the screw that holds the door stay to the frame.  That dropped out teice while we were in Spain last month! 
Sorry that I severely overstated the number of nylon stud fasteners on the panel. I meant to correct that when I posted how to remove the outer handle. I think that it was 5 or 6 and not 10!

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Post by hblewett on Fri Jul 04, 2014 9:27 pm

No problem - I think it was probably 5, but that was just a bonus, together with the fact that, unlike many such fixings, they don't break when you take them out and can be re-used.

I had the same problems with my door stay, and after much strong language I put loctite on the screw too - hence I had some to use, thanks to skyrakes tip.
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Worcester Habitation door handle broken Empty Re: Worcester Habitation door handle broken

Post by ajrm on Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:03 pm

Hi Ron, is this with a Hartal door? My Broadway FB hab door lock broke last year, 2 weeks into ownership, in the rain, in a French supermarket car park.
I opened the door from the inside at the same time as Mrs A opened the door from the outside, and we ended up with a limp outside handle and a door that wouldn't shut. We lashed the door shut with dog leads and drove to an aire nearby ( Fort Mahon).
I had to wind out the awning ( it was pouring down by now) and take the door apart to fix it. Luckily it was straight forward and has been fine since.
Allan

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Post by inspiredron on Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:07 am

Yes, it is a Hartal door. I actually rang Hartal's UK support. A nice lady started to explain to me how to remove the lock from one of their csrsvan doors. When I told her that her description did not match what I could see she apologised and told me she had no data for our type door!

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Post by groundhog on Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:44 pm

Mine has just broken again for the fourth time, just a pretty poor design. Luckily happened at home this time, will take it apart AGAIN when the weather gets warmer!!
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Post by hblewett on Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:53 pm

Sorry to hear that.  At least you'll be well-practiced at doing the job by now  scratch head
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Post by groundhog on Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:38 pm

That is true! Marquis did offer to fix it but they are over an hours drive away and it is good practice to do it myself for when it breaks again in the middle of the Alps!  up!
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Post by Pete Taylor on Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:18 pm

I made the mistake of Googling "Hartal door fault"... oh dear! rolleyes 

One of the two inner "catches" in ours seems to be slightly maladjusted as one has to really slam the door for both of them to go over-centre. Any advice on removal of the cover to make the adjustment? I can't figure how it clips in and do not want to apply any force.
Whilst less than two months from purchase and only 25 mins from the dealer, I hesitate to take it back, such is my loss of confidence in them. I trained as a precision tool-maker, so trial and error with a couple of lock-nuts is not beyond me... if only I could remove the plastic cover! Our outside handle feels really stiff too- I suspect that I might need to pay attention to the preceding posts above at some point. What a contrast between the Merc bank-vault door handles and the Hartal one!

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Post by groundhog on Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:21 am

Pete
Check the top of this thread and Inspiredron has given an excellent description of exactly what to do with pictures ( thanks Ron!). Just be brave, the panel; is only held by the rubber trim on the outer edge and comes away with gentle persuasion along the inner edge, if you have ever removed a door card from a car same idea, just a push in plastic clip. If any clips do break you could always use double sided tape to reattach the panel.
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Post by Pete Taylor on Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:58 am

groundhog wrote:Pete
Check the top of this thread and Inspiredron has given an excellent description of exactly what to do with pictures ( thanks Ron!). Just be brave, the panel; is only held by the rubber trim on the outer edge and comes away with gentle persuasion along the inner edge, if you have ever removed a door card from a car same idea, just a push in plastic clip. If any clips do break you could always use double sided tape to reattach the panel.
I understand the dismantling of the door skin from the excellent words and pictures above. What I can't see is how to remove the curved plastic cover from the part of the latches attached to the door frame- these are basically a piece of bent round steel rod, maybe 5mm dia, threaded at both ends and adjusted in/out, up/down by locknuts. The plastic cover is held on by some means I can't fathom- whether simply a very strong clip, or there might be a hidden screw in there. It is not what I would describe as a stunning piece of engineering! I'll see if I can photograph what my problem is.

Correctly latched:
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Not correctly latched:
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As you can see from the second shot the latch is only in it's "safety catch" position; this means that the edge of the door outside the van protrudes enough for a bad man to get a lever between the frame and the door and bust it open. If we slam the door, both latches go fully into position to (hopefully) prevent this.

Anyone know how to remove the plastic cover? The circular depression doesn't appear to be a push in screw cover, or if it is, it a blooming good fit!

Apologies for slight thread drift but this stuff is all related to the Hartal door mechanism.

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Post by groundhog on Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:49 pm

Sorry Pete misunderstood  what you meant.
Just been out and looked at mine and there is a screw under that depression....or where the depression is on yours because mine has no cover over the screw at all.
Looks like that has to be a cover even if a very tight one!
Regards David
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Post by Pete Taylor on Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:21 pm

Thanks David, I'll have a go at it tomorrow.

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Post by PLOUGHLIN on Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:02 pm

Just looking on line at a Worcester 2011, 11 reg,  and it has the same door as my Gloucester. This appears to be a  Dometic Seitz CaraD door, with external hinge covers. Anybody know when they changed to Hartel?

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Post by inspiredron on Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:10 pm

Pete Taylor wrote:Thanks David, I'll have a go at it tomorrow.
If you are going to try removing that beige cover over the hoop then I suggest that you get some rubber gloves and a bowl of very hot water - soak a thick cloth in the hot water, wring it out sufficiently to stop drips and wrap it around the beige cover to warm the plastic before you try to ease out the screw cover with something like a fine watchmaker's screwdriver. In this cold weather everything shrinks! biggrin

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Worcester Habitation door handle broken Empty Re: Worcester Habitation door handle broken

Post by inspiredron on Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:50 am

An update on Hartal door lock mechanisms.
Some time ago I asked for help from Hartal Germany when the pin on my external handle slipped out again. I had a second problem that in cold weather the central locking would not unlock the door and I had to use the key.
After about a week I had a response from the UK agents and a couple of months later a guy called when he was in our area and fixed both. The pin is now held in place by a screw into the plastic that bites onti the pin shaft and the unlocking problrm was simply thick grease on the pivot of the internal handle. Cleaned and light, oil - sweet and simple.
The guy also checked our stay. It was OK but he did mention that the nylon block that runs along the top groove of the door is a "use once" block. He stressed that if the pin comes out it cannot be replaced without subsequent popping out. He also stressed the need to ALWAYS hold the internal gab handle when opening tbe door as heavy winds will destroy that block attachment.
Great service!

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