Benefit entitlements

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Jaytee on Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:57 am

Well, I will stick to being a subject and the envy of most of the world  hugegrins 
Strooth this has gone off topic a tad  snigger

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by daisy mae on Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:55 pm

I am happy to be a subject also, a lot of other countries envy out Royal family, and they do bring in a lot of trade.

Do you think a president will be cheaper , especially someone like Blair, who ought to be charged with treason, NO  cost us possibly more so and will not bring in any wealth. I am proud of this country's  pageantry and all that goes with it.   up!  up! 

I am not against anyone who genuinely are disabled, poor etc getting benefits, that is what it is there for, genuine need, I am dead against the spongers of society who think it is their right to take take take, and doesn` care a  censored! about the hardworking folk who are paying for them,and even have the Gaul to keep breeding to get more money and a bigger house, how can anyone agree with that scenario?,  so priories need to be in order.


Last edited by daisy mae on Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:09 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : one word spelling)
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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by rds60h on Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:53 pm

So anyone on benefits is to regarded as one of the moronic parasites who the media have managed to dig up and portray as the norm ?
First of all the main benefit cost in Britain is the State Pension, but even that cost is peanuts compared to the cost to the govenment/economy by the Tax Evasion practiced by the majority of the Multi National businesses, but then those fraudsters wear suits and ties.
When you work you pay Income Tax and National Insurance, now there is a slight clue in the title of those payments, and that is "Insurance" something we all hate paying and we all hope we don't have to claim !
But if something goes wrong and we have to claim, what would you say if for instance you had the latest Winniebago stolen and the Insurance paid out enough to provide you with a bike and a tent, would you think that was fair ?
The majority of those claiming Benefits are in that type of situation, they have worked hard all their lives and then found themselves unemployed or physically unable to work, and most people are oblivious to the fact they too could only be a whisker away from being in the same position.
Yes there are those that take advantage of, or defraud the system and the EU has also enabled any European wishing to travel the opportunity to claim from a system they have never contributed to. But you should not punish the genuine claimants because of the scum element.
And remember, that while the establishment has managed to set the ordinary man in the street against the less fortunate man in the street, they are busy laughing up their sleeves and skimming even more obscene profit by Tax Evasion.
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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by daisy mae on Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:14 pm

rds60h wrote:So anyone on benefits is to regarded as one of the moronic parasites who the media have managed to dig up and portray as the norm ?
First of all the main benefit cost in Britain is the State Pension, but even that cost is peanuts compared to the cost to the govenment/economy by the Tax Evasion practiced by the majority of the Multi National businesses, but then those fraudsters wear suits and ties.
When you work you pay Income Tax and National Insurance, now there is a slight clue in the title of those payments, and that is "Insurance" something we all hate paying and we all hope we don't have to claim !
But if something goes wrong and we have to claim, what would you say if for instance you had the latest Winniebago stolen and the Insurance paid out enough to provide you with a bike and a tent, would you think that was fair ?
The majority of those claiming Benefits are in that type of situation, they have worked hard all their lives and then found themselves unemployed or physically unable to work, and most people are oblivious to the fact they too could only be a whisker away from being in the same position.
Yes there are those that take advantage of, or defraud the system and the EU has also enabled any European wishing to travel the opportunity to claim from a system they have never contributed to. But you should not punish the genuine claimants because of the scum element.
And remember, that while the establishment has managed to set the ordinary man in the street against the less fortunate man in the street, they are busy laughing up their sleeves and skimming even more obscene profit by Tax Evasion.
I did not say that, there are hundreds on benefits in the town four miles away from me, pushing buggies often with two or more other kiddies, mothers have a cigarette in their mouth they are on their mobile phones, taking no notice of the poor kids, then the language that comes out of the mothers mouth is eye watering this is to the young kids, looking at their trolley in the supermarket, they don`t cook, all junk food, which costs more than cooking things yourself, if they can afford to smoke and have mobile phones they can afford to feed the kids properly. they have never paid anything in to the system, how do I know, they are too young , just left school. get pregnant, hey !! I have been given a house.

The state pension should not be called a benefit, it has been paid in to, and I have worked and paid  extra , I have never claimed benefit, unless you call one person in a house and gets 25% off, that is a joke in it`s self, yes I am pretty annoyed why do some, take things out of context, just to make themselves look good, get real it cannot go on like this, it isn`t an open ended pot, everyone will pay the price eventually at the rate it is going. yes stop the scroungers, give it to those that it was there for in the first place, not every tom dick or harry who plays the game and feels it is their right, what about the workers, some have got to work till their seventy eventually, how can that be justified, they have done their bit before that age.  frustrating  frustrating
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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by rds60h on Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:16 pm

Daisy Mae, it is not an accusation aimed at you. It is a portrayal of the fact that the media have made this appear to be the norm and which because of the subject having become an ongoing target of the Media, people are accepting this distorted image of the situation.
The State Pension is a benefit, because it is funded by the imput of Income Tax and National Insurance and in my opinion is a benefit that in the vast majority of cases has been earned and deservedly given, although there are other retired benefits such as the Cold Weather and Winter Fuel Payments that should be means tested.
The real point that I was trying to make was that ordinary people are being duped into turning against other ordinary people, while the real culprits who are robbing the Treasury are the Big Businesses. It is a practice that has been perpetuated for generations that makes the people with the least pay the most and enables the rich to get richer whilst ensuring that the majority are manipulated into believing it is morally right.
You will keep hearing people making statements about forcing the enemployed to do voluntary work, if this work is available why is it "voluntary" ?
Who is it that benefits from this voluntary work ?
Retirement ages are being increased, supposedly to pay for the Pensions, but those who are working to a later age are only depriving the younger population of that employment, and those that are deprived of that employment have to be paid Unemployment Benefit so where is the saving ?
Minimum Wage was instigated to help the poorest paid, but what happened ? The Minimum Wage became the "Standard". It is not a minimum wage that is required it is a "Living Wage".
We are being dragged back into the standards that were the norm back in the 1800's and early 1900's. You could read the Ragged Trousered Philanthapists which was written at the turn of the 20th Century and just by changing a few names and details it could just as easily have been written about the working standards of today.
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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Jaytee on Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:31 pm

Too heavy going for me rds60h. You definitely don't read the Daily Mail  lol4

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Dutto on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:11 am

rds60h wrote:…………...

We are being dragged back into the standards that were the norm back in the 1800's and early 1900's. You could read the Ragged Trousered Philanthapists which was written at the turn of the 20th Century and just by changing a few names and details it could just as easily have been written about the working standards of today.

Hi there,

I read the book only a few years ago and agree entirely!!  It's a very sober read that resonates with today's society!

Here's an example of a "parasite" by Daily Wail definition.

Our grandson aged 22 years has had cerebral palsy all his life, which was caused by a failure in the hospital where he was born.  He is mentally alert and actually qualified for University where he studied Pure Mathematics for a year before he started having epileptic fits due to the stress of studying.

He is extremely brave with what he manages to do despite his physical condition (shaking, poor speech, stumbling and falling over are all common features of his condition) and receives a disability allowance.  (You know what I mean; a "State Handout".)

About six months ago he received a phone call from someone at Social Services who questioned him about how he was doing; he did what he normally does, told the truth but made light of his physical limitations and the epileptic fits.

The person thanked him and a week later he received a letter from Social Services informing him that he was losing a lot of his disability allowance on the basis that he could work if he wanted to; despite the fact that his own doctor disagrees and that any stress triggers epileptic fits that the doctor's just can't seem to get under control.

The truth is that we live in a massively corrupt society where the less fortunate people are poorly educated, massively exploited and have little or no representation within the ranks of the better off.

When we look towards our so called "Leaders" we have politicians that make corruption the norm and a supposedly Christian Church which is spending its time deciding whether or not gay marriages are okay and whether or not women should be bishops rather than looking after the weak and helpless within our society.  (The fact that the future Head of this Church is a divorcee who was married to another divorcee in a civil ceremony only adds irony to the situation!)
Tell me more about this "best in the world", "envy of other nations", "caring and sharing" society where "we are all in this together"!  tap_fingers  tap_fingers 

Alternatively "Beam me up Scottie!"   allthumbz 

Best regards,
 drinksallround

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Britains problem

Post by millenium falcon on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:09 am

Hello all.

I dont know very much about britain anymore but it does seem to me (as an expat) that the education system is a good place to start, young people dont appear to be very well educated nowadays. not many young speak any other language´s and are totaly ignorant of the world about them, plus There´s so much rubbish on tv, films are violent, the music is a rumble of jumbled something or other and the food they throw down there necks wont do them any good but make them "megga hoppers". Everything that influences a growing mind is marketed purley for profit without any forthought for consiqence. Education also starts in the home not just at school, if you cant look after your children and teach them to respect society then its better that dont have them.
Just a thought.

Regards

M/F
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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Jaytee on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:27 am

All good points M/F and yes I agree that there are many that are desperately in need of help and don't get it and yes Dutto I agree with much of what you said in your last post.

I think the whole point made by the starter of this thread was the disgust many of us, which must include you Dutto and Rds60h, have when we hear of the 'few' who totally abuse what should be a wonderful institution to help those worse off deserving people.

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Bertie Bassett on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:12 am

I agree with much of what has been said by all here, but if you're looking for a transfer of hard cash from 'the less well off to the rich' you only need to look at the 'Green subsidies' that ensure that the place I work has a massive subsidy for the wind and solar power farms that have been installed. The figures take my breath away!  We wonder why elderly people die in the winter? Look no further than this total and absolute aberration into which each and every one of us pays...........by law! Social security payments are abused without doubt, that's why we are the target of choice for legal and illegal immigrants. Not a hysterical story from the 'Mail', the facts can be found in any relevant copy of Hansard where a relevant parliamentary question has been asked.

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by rds60h on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:48 pm

Some very erudite and well balanced replies, and it is nice to see that both sides of the coin are being taken into consideration.
It is infuriating to see those who take advantage flaunt the fact that they are not prepared to work and expect to be provided for and yet appear to have a lifestyle that many working people cannot afford, but the financial figures that the media provide are very convoluted and are not being compared like for like, they will state that a figure is equivilent to a salary of "x" amount, but if someone earning the "x" amount had the 3 or 4 or more children as well they also would be receiving Child Benefit, and Child Tax Credits and Working Tax Credits on top of that figure..................and lets not forget those are benefits too !!
Those claiming Benefits and living a good life are not just doing it on Benefits, they must being doing something else as well, such as working on the side or some sort of criminal activity, and those people should be targetted.
Genuine people living on Benefits do not have a good standard of living, and scrimp and save at every turn, whether it be not eating properly to ensure their children do, or buying products about to go out of date, to sitting without heating and buying second hand clothes from charity shops.
Unemployment, illness or disability is not a reason to exclude someone from society, but if benefits are reduced or restricted much more than is now happening, then that is exactly what will be happening to those people.
As I have said previously, the real saving and cases of fraud are not to be made from the lower rungs of society. The real miscreants are to be found in the upper echelons of the world.
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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by roli on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:37 pm

Can you guys please cool it try and avoid serious politics on here

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Nain on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:52 pm

Excellent arguments from both sides. Long may free speech reign!
 One point MF there is a part of the U.K. where two languages are the norm for many (though not as many as there could be) - Wales!
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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Dutto on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:54 pm

rds60h wrote:…………….

Genuine people living on Benefits do not have a good standard of living, and scrimp and save at every turn, whether it be not eating properly to ensure their children do, or buying products about to go out of date, to sitting without heating and buying second hand clothes from charity shops.
.
.
Unemployment, illness or disability is not a reason to exclude someone from society, but if benefits are reduced or restricted much more than is now happening, then that is exactly what will be happening to those people…………...

Totally agree!

I have only just really noticed the title of this Thread so I had a quick look at the definitions:

Benefit:

o  Something that is advantageous or good; an advantage:

o  A payment or gift, as one made to help someone or given by a benefit society, insurance company or public agency.

o  A theatrical performance or other public entertainment to raise money for a charitable organisation or cause.

o  An act of kindness or good deed.


Entitlement:

o  The act of entitling or conferring a title.

o  The state of being entitled.

o  The right to guaranteed benefits under a government program, as Social Security or unemployment compensation.

I have highlighted the significant words but in synopsis and to put as succinctly as I can possibly make it:

The people who receive benefits are generally entitled to them!

This is unlike:

o  the businessmen and celebrities who do not pay taxes,

o  the MP's and MEP's and MSP's that are fiddling their expenses,

o  the CEO's who are paying themselves bonuses that they don't earn,

o  the company executives that punish the poor chasing excessive profits when providing essential services,

o  the politicians that spend more time lining their own pockets that representing the people who voted them into power,

o  etc etc etc etc!!

When the "benefits" of this group are stopped there will be adequate funds to look after the weak and disadvantaged in our society.  allthumbz 

Best regards,
 drinksallround

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by roli on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:05 am

There has been a few complaints over the political nature of this thread. If its politics can you take it to another forum somewhere

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benefits

Post by millenium falcon on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:30 am

Hello Nain

Sorry I forgot about Wales!. I have only ever heard my finnish/swedish speaking wife use it and it does sound rather strange to the ear´s. I hope it becomes more popular in the future with the younger generations.

Regards

M/F
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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by gj1023 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:35 am

Good thread and it great to read that some of you are starting to understand what is going on in the UK....  You are seeing through the black propaganda the Gov have put out ever since they got in..  Realising that it really is to deflect from the real spongers in our society , the bankers who caused the crash and got away scott free, the rich tax avoiders who do anything they can to avoid paying ,   the rich landlords who put up rents and collect more and more in housing benefit  and so on
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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Jaytee on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:09 am

Non political post  smile! 

Looking back through all the above posts; we all have our own take on the specifics but we all seem to agree that there are a group of people taking the p..s out of the system (which includes benefit fiddlers and benefit tourists) and that there are deserving people who cannot get what they need.

Answer that we will all agree with is stop the p..s takers  allthumbz 

The only bit I can't get my head around is how  scratch head

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Dutto on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:24 pm

Jaytee wrote:………..

The only bit I can't get my head around is how  scratch head

Ah …. if only I was nineteen again!!  wave  wave 

When I was nineteen I knew all the answers and now I don't even know half the questions!  shrugg  shrugg 

I do know that we should concentrate more on the people ripping us off for millions than the ones ripping us off for hundreds!  allthumbz 

Best regards,
 drinksallround

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Dutto on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:39 pm

roli wrote:There has been a few complaints over the political nature of this thread. If its politics can you take it to another forum somewhere
Hi there,

I find it very difficult to separate "politics" from "life"!

At the moment the following political elements are going to impinge directly on my life:

o  I am awaiting an appointment for surgery on the NHS for both of my knees.  (It has been suggested by the OS that I go private due to cuts!)

o  Vote on Scottish Independence.  (My wife has 60% of her pension from a Scottish Council.)

o  BP claimed today that politician inspired sanctions on Russia will reduce their profitability.  (The old "conscience v. profit" debate!)

I can only assume that the "few complaints" you have had originated from people who do not agree with some of the opinions put forward on this Forum and therefore wish the perpetrators to be gagged!

I refer your complainants to Evelyn Beatrice Hall who said:

 "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" 

Best regards,
 drinksallround 

Reference for those who care to read it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Beatrice_Hall

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Bertie Bassett on Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:36 pm

Dutto wrote:
roli wrote:There has been a few complaints over the political nature of this thread. If its politics can you take it to another forum somewhere
Hi there,

I find it very difficult to separate "politics" from "life"!

At the moment the following political elements are going to impinge directly on my life:

o  I am awaiting an appointment for surgery on the NHS for both of my knees.  (It has been suggested by the OS that I go private due to cuts!)

o  Vote on Scottish Independence.  (My wife has 60% of her pension from a Scottish Council.)

o  BP claimed today that politician inspired sanctions on Russia will reduce their profitability.  (The old "conscience v. profit" debate!)

I can only assume that the "few complaints" you have had originated from people who do not agree with some of the opinions put forward on this Forum and therefore wish the perpetrators to be gagged!

I refer your complainants to Evelyn Beatrice Hall who said:

 "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" 

Best regards,
 drinksallround 

Reference for those who care to read it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Beatrice_Hall

Shame there isn't a like button on this forum Dutto, well said.

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by daisy mae on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:13 pm

Well said from me too.

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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Swansea Jac on Sat Aug 02, 2014 11:06 am

PennyandDerek wrote:Agreed.

At the next election you will be able to vote for;
A Westminster game-player with a blue tie,
A Westminster game-player with a red tie,
A Westminster game-player with a gold tie,
A Westminster game-player with a green tie,
A Westminster game-player with a multi-coloured tie,
and maybe even a Westminster game-player with a funny shade of purple tie,

Guess who we will elect?

A Westminster game-player wearing a tie!

Derek
Or, of course, you might be able to vote for a candidate who does NOT wear a tie?  A female candidate?...But of course, her views would need to be scrutinized beforehand, too
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Re: Benefit entitlements

Post by Dutto on Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:02 pm

Swansea Jac wrote:Or, of course, you might be able to vote for a candidate who does NOT wear a tie?  A female candidate?...But of course, her views would need to be scrutinized beforehand, too

Er …. didn't we have one of those already; and isn't she one of the prime reasons we are all paying through the nose for essential services that used to deliver their profits to the Exchequer rather than to private shareholders?

Oh, there I go being cynical again!  Sorry!  Whistle1 

Best regards,
 drinksallround

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