What's Vintage ?

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What's Vintage ?

Post by SherpaSam on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:44 am

The blurb says "This section is for vintage Commer & Bedford auto sleeper conversions", but then there are people on here talking about '88 & '89 vehicles, so I reckon my '78 Sherpa must count.
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by Admin on Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:40 am

Hello SherpaSam

Regrettably we haven't had much uptake in this section by vintage owners to date for some reason.
So why don't you kick start this section off by posting a few photo's of your Sherpa Auto-Sleeper up!

Welcome to the forum BTW, perhaps you would be kind enough to say hello to our members in the intro section Here


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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by roli on Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:31 am

2nd attempt !!! stupid dongle disconnected when I was going to press send !!

I would say yours is Vintage, I think we would go by what the Classic Campers/eMotorhomers do. They occasionally state the age on their page in MMM Mag will have a butchers when I get home


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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by Paulmold on Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:54 am

MMM mag classes 'classics' as being over 15 years old. Personally I think that is too young, mine is 14 yrs old now and I don't consider it a 'classic'.
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by andygump on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:13 pm

Hi

Well mine is 16years old and I consider it "Classic". At 73 I am the Vintage part of the equation. smile! look here


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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by roli on Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:32 pm

Hmm yes that is a bit young,, If I told my brother in law his exec was vintage (same age as Andys') he would say the only thin g vintage is the 170,000 miles on the clock

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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by Waves117 on Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:29 pm

andygump wrote:Hi

Well mine is 16years old and I consider it "Classic". At 73 I am the Vintage part of the equation. smile! look here


Love it! had me laughing for ages rofl3 rofl3 rofl3

Waves117 wave
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by SherpaSam on Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:40 am

at 1/3rd of a Century, I reckon it's a Classic, but I have trouble thinking of it as Vintage since I remember them as New vans when I was a teenager, so that would make me ancient so_sad biggrin
Still can't do you a decent pic As the only ones I have are from the repairs I've been doing, but I found a pic on the web of her a few years ago to use as an Avatar.
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by Bartfarst on Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:44 am

SherpaSam wrote:at 1/3rd of a Century, I reckon it's a Classic, but I have trouble thinking of it as Vintage since I remember them as New vans when I was a teenager, so that would make me ancient .

Having worked for Austin Morris on the development of the Sherpa van you can imagine how old that makes me feel!
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by SherpaSam on Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:45 pm

Bartfarst wrote:
SherpaSam wrote:at 1/3rd of a Century, I reckon it's a Classic, but I have trouble thinking of it as Vintage since I remember them as New vans when I was a teenager, so that would make me ancient .

Having worked for Austin Morris on the development of the Sherpa van you can imagine how old that makes me feel!

But Hopefully very satisfied that something with such low development costs (and excellent use of existing parts) stayed in production , with minimal changes, for so many years.
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by Alf on Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:26 pm

Hello Sherpa Sam We had 3 Sherpa's --- 2 early Auto-Sleepers Sherpa's one we converted to an Automatic gearbox and then a Freight Rover Auto-Sleepers Sherpa this was with the 2000cc petrol engine with overdrive . The overdrive went 3 -- 3 1/2 ----4 then 4 1/2 it also had Carbon Fibre rear leaf springs now that was a motor it was cream bottom and chocolate brown top half at a distance it looked like the early Range Rover. Now those were the days

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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by SherpaSam on Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:20 pm

Hi Alf,
Interesting to hear you had the overdrive box on the 2000 engine as I've been offered an overdrive box, but as I wanted to put the 2000 (diesel) engine in , I assumed I needed the later 5 speed box.
If the overdrive box was ok with the 2000, then perhaps I'll put it in now, with the 1800 diesel I've got, then just swap the engine when I find one.
Cheers,
Sam
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by Bartfarst on Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:02 pm

SherpaSam wrote:But Hopefully very satisfied that something with such low development costs (and excellent use of existing parts) stayed in production , with minimal changes, for so many years.

Well yes, it was always a bit of a 'parts bin special!' The tooling for the panel van from the cab rearwards dated back to the Morris Commercial J4. I particularly recall how incredibly worn the tooling must have been as the fits between BIW panels were just awful, even by BL standards. One of our major challenges was getting the interior noise within limits with the van empty. The single leaf rear springs were great at transferring the noise from the meshing frequency of the diff straight into the rear floor which then acted like a sounding board. The poor fit of panels then did nothing to stop vibration. Larger rubber bushes on the springs helped but it was always a compromise. This was always one area where FWD vans had the advantage.

Nevertheless, as you say, it had a long production run and provided a good cheap and simple van for many. Unladen, the perfomance of the van was good for its day and a lot of fun, particularly the 2.0l 'O'-series versions which would see off many in acceleration if, that is, you could stop the rear axle from tramping. I suppose this was never an issue with motorcaravans being close to fully laden for most of the time.

In many ways Sherpa exemplified BL's problems: designed at Longbridge, developed in Enfield, Redditch and built at Common Lane, Birmingham. I left when the inevitable consolidation finally happened in 1981 and soon after it became Freight Rover. Happy days nonetheless.
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vintage

Post by tiasto on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:44 pm

wave our renault trafic is nearly 25 years old i think she's a pensioner now,

can't run up the hills as she used to but she's still fun. wave
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by boxerman on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:53 am

tiasto wrote: wave our renault trafic is nearly 25 years old i think she's a pensioner now,

can't run up the hills as she used to but she's still fun. wave

Hi Tiasto
Why don't you tell us what model your van is instead of just "Trafic"? 1986 will probably be an RV50 if it's a poptop or an RHT if it's hightop, if it has a shower compartment it will be an RCX.

You're not alone though, I've noticed others on this site who list their vans as "Renault Trafics" it's a like saying you've got a Ford Transit or a VW T4. Come on Folks, tell us what you've got, if you don't know, PM me a couple of good photos and I'll tell you what it is (or try!)

Frank
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by boxerman on Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:01 am

Bartfarst wrote:
Well yes, it was always a bit of a 'parts bin special!' The tooling for the panel van from the cab rearwards dated back to the Morris Commercial J4. I particularly recall how incredibly worn the tooling must have been .... <snipped>

I bet you could tell us some wonderful tales, I love hearing stories of how things came about. We had a freight Rover as a works van which I used to use probably once a week. I nearly always tripped up over that inner wheel arch when getting out! Praps its just my big feet?

Frank
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vintage or classic i don't care

Post by bedford1984 on Mon Nov 14, 2011 6:05 pm

my bedford cf 250 must come into one of these catogories at 27 years old i class her as new as only having her two months i set off to france with just a few spares and a few spanners in a carrier bag and she got me all the way to cap bretton and back with just the odd glitch then when i got her home ihad a full service done on the engine and brake system and now she runs a treat.
john
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by Bartfarst on Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:34 pm

boxerman wrote:

I bet you could tell us some wonderful tales, I love hearing stories of how things came about. .....Frank

I wasn't there long enough to build a large portfolio of 'Sea Tales', but here are a small few:

As mentioned, interior noise was an issue and we did loads of testing various configurations at MIRA. So we lapped the hi-speed circuit for hours at 70mph with me standing in the back of the van wearing a crash helmet and holding on to a tripod with a noise meter whilst trying to take readings. Periodically we'd be overtaken by the boys from Jaguar high on the banking doing 140mph in soft top XJSs and also riders testing the Hesketh motorcycle lapping at 120mph continuously. One one occasion our driver was inattentive and swerved to miss another car on the track sending me flying in the back. Then all the instrumentation toppled over onto me ramming the microphone against the van floor, after which it didn't work anymore. But I never forgot those guys on the Heskeths, sat well forward on the machine for hour after hour: respect! Alvis used to also go hi-speed testing their Scorpion tanks at that time. It was amazing to see them on rubber tracks doing controlled drifts sideways flat out on level corners.

More specific to the Sherpa I was tasked with measuring how much the propshaft centre bearing moved during an "idiot start" which was a BL standard test. So I instrumented it up with a transducer and a chart recorder and set off into the local industrial estate. The aforementioned test involved flooring the throttle in 1st gear and slipping one's left foot sideways off the clutch. The van would then shoot forward with the rear axle tramping and rear wheels skipping all over the place. During my first test the centre bearing deflection was fine, but the engine moved so far forwards that it stuffed the cooling fan into the radiator sending aluminium and green coolant everywhere!

Another of my tasks was to build the second Sharpa K2 prototype, and that was interesting. We also made a prototype V6 version with, I think, a cut-down Rover V8. Not sure if that ever got into production?

Before I left I went through all the documentation I'd done such as reports, change requests etc. At that time after one year's effort I recall that the only positive tangible benefit I could ascribe to my work was that the throttle cable on the LHD Sherpa variant supplied just to the Finnish Postal Service was 3/4" shorter. That really looked great in the Achievements section of my CV!

Bartfarst

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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by roli on Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:55 am

Was that V6 engine ever put in one of the Triumph cars ?

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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by Bartfarst on Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:10 am

roli wrote:Was that V6 engine ever put in one of the Triumph cars ?

Not that I know of. At the time I was there, Triumph was on it's way out with just the TR7 in production which had the Rover V8 or the old Dolomite engine in it. Older Triumphs such as the 2500, Vitesse and GT6 used a straight six. I suspect the V6 never actually got made, although I understand that GM made a V6 version of the original Buick all aluminium engine from which the Rover V8 was derived. I originally had thought that the Metro 6R4 rally car had this engine, but this was a bespoke creation specifically for that vehicle.

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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by CC on Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:15 am

Blast from the plast had_idea What a beast the Metro 6R4 was during the 80's.... Only Metro you would have seen me in hugegrins (opps forgot the missis had a metro when I met her lol4 )

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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by boxerman on Sun Nov 20, 2011 12:01 pm

Sounds like you had a very interesting time there smile! It's got to be better than sitting at a desk all day hasn't it?
(Mind you, LOTs of things are better ...)

Frank
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by Tony F on Sun Nov 20, 2011 10:03 pm

Ah, the 6R4. What a car!! Highlights of my life include being driven through the Scottish forests by the reigning Scottish rally champion in his championship-winning V8 Rover SDI, and over the Great Orme (road closed) by him in his next car - a 6R4 with the full evolution pack. What an experience THAT was ...

Faster than a contemporary F1 car up to a ton apparently...

T up! ny
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by rogersrimini on Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:16 pm

For what it's worth I think the old (vintage? mid '70's) definition for cars was 25 years old is vintage and 50 years old is veteran. On that basis you qualify. However the vintage motorcycle club at the same time used to insist that Vintage only applied to pre 1954 (I think) models!

I hope you enjoy your Sherpa. I started with a 1976 Holdsworth Sherpa: No power steering, sliding front doors and furniture so low you had to cook and wash up on your knees! I'm sure A/S would never have built something as quirky?

Good luck.
Jon
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Re: What's Vintage ?

Post by Vardy on Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:08 pm

I reckon it qualifies as classic when bits drop off and all 16 garage mechanics you have desperately tried do that dodgy "sucky" thing with their teeth.

Or fall about in hysterics lol4
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